Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

SeanMcl

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 3, 2009
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187
I have a 74 Gulfstream, OMC stringer, 190 HP 302 Ford. She runs well, has good power in the lower RPM range, but will not get above 3400-ish RPM at WOT. Prop is a 16 pitch. It revs up just fine out of gear, but not under load.

After reading and following the excellent stickies on this very subject (and fixing other issues by doing so), I bought a timing light and a dwell meter, (that's a clue as to my newbie status) replaced the points, condenser, cap and rotor. They were all in horrible shape, fwiw. I set the point gap and dwell to the manual's specs.

I attached the hose, started it up and checked the timing. It was all over the place, with something like 31 degrees total (way too high) at 3000 and above, and too low at 2000. I fiddle for a bit with no luck (I'm new, remember) and eventually set it at the correct 27 degrees total advance at 4000 RPM, but the lower RPMs are still all over the place. It runs fine for the rest of the year except for the low RPMs and I decide to replace the distributor this year and free myself from mechanical advances and points.

But when I start doing my research, I find that even the new $350 Mallory units are still using a mechanical advance. The points are replaced with solid state, but for $100 I can convert my old distributor to points-less. I understand that my weights and spings are out of whack, and that's why my timing curve is all over the place. I have not looked to see if anyone makes a rebuild kit for my distributor.

So what is the consensus? Should I replace the distrib entirely, convert my old to points-less and refurb the mechanical advance, or just refurb the mechanicals and leave the points in? Will I see any performance increase with new parts over the originals, or will the originals be as good once I get them working right?

Your thoughts are appreciated.
 

Don S

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

When you checked your dwell, did it change a lot from idle to higher rpm? If so, the bushings and shaft are probably worn and you will get a lot of change in the points. Not good. Only cure is a replacement.
IF the timing is too high and too low, then the springs for the weights may be rusted or missing. If you can't find springs, then you may again need a new distributor.
As far as electronic, distributor and electronic advance, not sure a marine all electronic distributor was ever made for Ford engines. In the early 90's, Volvo used carbed Fords, but they had the Prestolite BID distributor with mechanical advance.
 

HT32BSX115

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Dec 8, 2005
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10,083
Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

Howdy,


revs up just fine out of gear
First of all, DON'T DO THAT. It tells you nothing........ and is always hard on any engine.

Second, I would simply fix the distributor. It appears that it is not advancing properly. That would absolutely prevent the engine from turning the correct RPM.

Since that is a fairly old engine/drive combination, you need to ensure that you have the correct drive ratio and prop pitch for that boat. A too high pitch or wrong drive ratio can also cause you to not be able to make rated WOT RPM.



Regards,



Rick
 

fishinpa

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Nov 2, 2009
Messages
221
Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

so should we not first ask Sean if this boat while in his ownership, with his current prop and engine configuration -ever reached the correct WOT range ?

fish
 

bruceb58

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Mar 5, 2006
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30,537
Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

You can probably just get your old distrubutor rebuilt. Just make sure that whoever does it can set up the weights and springs properly for a boat application. I had my distributor on my old 305 Cobra recurved to bring in the advance a little earlier than what was stock but you have to be careful when you do this type of thing. Too much advance too early can cause detonation.

You can really tell the condition/wear of your distributor by how much the dwell varies over RPM. Should be pretty steady. If the dwell is allover the place, your timing will also be all over the place since dwell affects timing.
 

ziggy

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

fwiw, posts before me are likely more on to it than i am.
I set the point gap and dwell to the manual's specs.
from what i've found, ya usually get one or the other. i feel point gap is a general setting. it's the feel thing that Don S is saying i think. just set it to proper dwell angle. dwell angle doesn't change through the rpms. on the old engines i've had, a little dwell variation seems the norm. maybe + or - 1* or so. this i've seemed to live with and get away with. much more variation and i think it's time to get concerned. dwell is set at idle speed. no more. if your engine is like mine, advance starts to occur real fast. like within the first 100 or 200 rpm increase w/o looking at a book.

you said it yourself, you weights and springs seem to me to be the culprit. they need to move free and have the proper springs for your advance curve.

while i've not looked around my town for such. if your questioning the operation of you distributor. you should be able to take it to a distributor shop and have it bench tested on an accurate machine. i was under the impression that the bush in the distributor could be replaced if needed. a worn bush is where i think the dwell variation comes from if present.

i'm sure my notions will be corrected if i'm not letting you in on proper info, i hope..

dwell affects timing.
yep, that's the saying i learned to. except i thought it was effects... :confused:... hum, went and looked up the two definitions. i wonder which way it is? now i am confused..
 
Last edited:

bruceb58

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

yep, that's the saying i learned to. except i thought it was effects... :confused:... hum, went and looked up the two definitions. i wonder which way it is? now i am confused..
Nope...affects is the correct word there. "A change of timing is the effect of changing dwell" is how you would use the other word.

Affect is "to influence"
Effect is "a result"

Grammar lesson for the day. :)
 

Don S

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

Dwell i not measured with a feeler gauge, it's measured with a dwell meter.
Now, if you dwell is changing, that means the point gap is changing. The thing that causes the dwell to be fine at one rpm and different or changing at higher rpm is the bearings (bushings) and shaft in the distributor, If they are worn, they will move around and change the gap of the points. You can see this on a dwell meter. Not sure there is anyone here that can measure the point gap with the engine running at different rpms.
 

Bondo

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

Not sure there is anyone here that can measure the point gap with the engine running at different rpms.

Ayuh,.. Except with a Dwell meter...:p:D
 

RicardoMarine

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

The advice on dwell and wear is dead on! Needs to be corrected and/or replaced!

If over-hauling your existing distributor, have it done by a person/shop who owns an old school distributor machine, so that the advance curve can be set and actually checked dynamically on the machine. No guess work.... no further messing around with limit/curve, etc, once installed on the engine.... of which is not the place nor time to be doing this.

Mallory makes available a YLM version for this engine. It is NOT Hall Effect.... it is NOT photo eye.... it is a magnetic VR (reluctor style) and will make a great replacement for this engine.
note: 302 vs 351 not same!

eBasicPower has them for $309.... you may do better.
I assume LH rotation????
http://www.ebasicpower.com/pc/MAL9-26301/MER10K-IB/Distributor Ford V8 302 Electronic LH.html

base_media
 

fishrdan

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

but the lower RPMs are still all over the place. It runs fine for the rest of the year except for the low RPMs

I had my old 140 HP dist with worn shaft bushings do the same thing, timing jumping all over the place at low RPM's. The shaft bushings were worn so I replaced the dist and the dwell/timing stayed rock solid.

I agree with the others about finding a shop with an ol' school distributor machine and have them replace the bushings and setup the dist, if a reasonable price. Problem with that would be finding a shop who still has the machine.

If you get a Mallory dist, don't get a "Uni-Lite". I had one in a hot rod and replaced modules 2-3 times over the years, seemed they would last 3-4 years and then one day out of the blue, no fire...
 

RicardoMarine

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

.................
I agree with the others about finding a shop with an ol' school distributor machine and have them replace the bushings and setup the dist, if a reasonable price. Problem with that would be finding a shop who still has the machine.

If you get a Mallory dist, don't get a "Uni-Lite". I had one in a hot rod and replaced modules 2-3 times over the years, seemed they would last 3-4 years and then one day out of the blue, no fire...
Yes, these days it can be tuff to find someone who has one!

Yep.... YLM = magnetic breaker-less, and these are VR (reluctor) to boot!
No photo eye units for me either!
 

dockwrecker

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

I had an ancient distributor machine that was given to me when I was moonlighting doing British car restorations. Sold it for $200 bucks and probably could have gotten much more. Pretty cool to really set up a distributor with! I haven't seen one around for years tho.
Find your local hot rod restorer and see if they can rebush yours. It's not that hard to do, it's really a matter of pushing out the old brass bushing and properly pressing in a new one. A thorough cleaning of the advance plate and weights with a SMALL amount of light weight grease and your'e back in business albeit with old school ignition.
 

Don S

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

Replacing the bushings isn't the hard part, every one that I have seen that needed bushings also needed a shaft because the shaft was severly scored worse than the bushing. By the time you put all the parts and labor into fixing a worn out distributor you could have a new one.
 

dockwrecker

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

Probably so Don with US built motors. The British stuff with their propensity to throw oil from every pore usually quit before the shaft dies, but unexplicably still wear the bushing.
 

SeanMcl

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Re: Buy a new distributor or fix my old one?

Ask a hotrod shop; good idea! I have a few friends who are into the 40s - 60s hotrods, so I have asked them for the name of a pro who can rebuild a distributor correctly. If the price comes in at less than half the cost of new, I will rebuild. Otherwise I will buy a new one. I have seen the Mallory YLM512cv for $269 from a reputable online dealer.

I'll also replace the coil and wires, either way. I'm pretty sure they are original equipment!

Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
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