Butt connector or solder ?

series60

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I have just installed a different engine wiring harness (1984 sbc305) and had to make a few changes to the terminal connectors. All good on this. Now I have to make a splice in the main + lead leading to the alternator. The manual shows a color change from the main + lead which is red/purple to orange per OEM. The issue with the new/different wiring harness is this includes an aftermarket change from the 3 wire alternator original OEM installation to a single wire aftermarket alternator. All this is mute given my question!? Which is the preferred way to splice two large gauge wires? Should I go the butt connector way using the marine grade butt connectors which have shrink ends or solder the splice and use shrink tube?

Your thoughts!
 

Bondo

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Ayuh,.... Which ever trips yer trigger,... either is acceptable....

Btw,... This should be in the Electrical forum, Not here in the I/O forum...
 

crewscontrol

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

You need to define "large gauge wires". IMO if you are talking #10 or smaller I would use a butt connector crimped and then soldered to the two wires. Then I would heat shrink the connection using heat shrink tubing that has the "goo" inside that melts and seals the splice when heated.
 

drewpster

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

The only concern I have heard about soldering connections is that they could fracture under vibration. Personally on larger cables I prefer soldered connections. But I have never had issues with either method. I think the real trick is to make sure the connection is properly sealed with quality heat shrink. Cheap heat shrink does not have glue in it and will trap water.
 

series60

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Sorry 'bout posting in the wrong section! Thanks for the insight Guys.
 

jlinder

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

This question comes up periodically. You will find people on both sides of the question (often with strong feelings).

While I favor the crimp solution I think the important point to stress is that whatever you choose make sure you do it right.

If you solder make sure you make sure the wires are twisted together to form a solid mechanical connection before you solder (i.e. - don't try to use the solder to mechanically hold the wire together). Then make sure the solder flows and is sucked up by the wire. You don't want a cold solder joint.

Follow up with heat shrink that has the internal goo so it forms a solid air and water tight cover.

If you crimp make sure you do it right. Don't just give the butt splice a squeeze with some pliers. Use a crimping tool that is designed for it. After crimping give it a test by pulling on the wires. Amazing how many times I have seen crimp connections where the wires can easily be pulled out and the person who did the crimp never checked.

Like the solder connection follow up with heat shrink that has the internal goo so it forms a solid air and water tight cover.

Again, I favor the crimp, but as long as you do it right it should be fine.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

If you are just joining two wires its not as bad to solder as when you were say using a ring connector. You should never solder ring connectors or when one side is held rigid.
 

dvandsm64

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

being an electrician. all will work. you could even use a wire nut( depending on wire gauge). just give all the proper insulation/wraps, both for safety and weatherization.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

being an electrician. all will work. you could even use a wire nut( depending on wire gauge). just give all the proper insulation/wraps, both for safety and weatherization.
Not a chance. You never do this in a boat.

You actually do this?
 

drewpster

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

I dont mean to hammer on dvandsm64, but I think it is important to make this clear. It is never a good idea to use home wiring components in a boat or a vehical of any kind. That is not its intended purpose.
I have real world experience with this. Several years ago my company decided to add a circuit for use in all of our trucks. Instead of using what we recommended, the higher-ups insisted we use stranded home wire and wire nuts to make the connection. I worked the floor then and was not prone to ask questions...just do it. So over a period of time the circuit was added as they instructed. We ended up with a 100% failure rate on this brilliant idea. As you may guess the bosses did not fix the problem by going with what we recommended, they simply eliminated the circuit alltogether.

Use the right stuff.....please.

Sorry dvandsm64, your just wrong on that one.
drewp
 

CVX20SPRINT

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Any circuit that is going to carry a lot of current(Amperage)should be soldered.Crimp connections(even done properly)do not make the best connections and will heat up with higher current flow.Heating and cooling of the connector will cause it to loosen eventually,causing heating and arcing....just getting worse and worse.If you're worrying about the solder joint being brittle,just tie off the wire to something at each end of the joint.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Any circuit that is going to carry a lot of current(Amperage)should be soldered.Crimp connections(even done properly)do not make the best connections and will heat up with higher current flow.
Huh! How do you think battery cables are made? They are all crimped.
 

Lyle29464

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

solder is fine on most light weight wiring. If you are working with high amps it sux.
 

DianneB

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Solder does NOT make a connection brittle - old wive's tale - but a soldered connection is not bend-able and need to be supported if subject to flexing or excess vibration.

The best possible connection regardless of wire size is to make a solid mechanical connection first and then solder.
 

NYBo

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Regardless of the choice of connection methods, both sides of the splice should be well supported to keep strain off the joint.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Solder does NOT make a connection brittle - old wive's tale.
It doesn't make it brittle but it makes a joint that can not flex as the solder wicks down the wire. That is why it is not used when attaching wires to connectors in automotive, military and space applications just to name a few.

Take two ring connectors and crimp a wire in one and solder one on the other. Now clamp both of the ring connectors in a vise and start wiggling the wires up and down. The one that was soldered will break in not much time.
 

DianneB

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

Take two ring connectors and crimp a wire in one and solder one on the other. Now clamp both of the ring connectors in a vise and start wiggling the wires up and down. The one that was soldered will break in not much time.

IF wires were subject to that kind of deflection in service, the designer ought to be SHOT.

The reasons crimps are used today is because it is cheap, fast, and doesn't involve "craftsmanship" (i.e. can be done by a trained monkey!). Mechanically secure and soldered is the most reliable connection in any industry.

(With nearly 50 years in the industry, 30 in engineering/design, everything from medical to industrial, you do it your way and I will do it mine.)
 

drewpster

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

The reasons crimps are used today is because it is cheap, fast, and doesn't involve "craftsmanship" (i.e. can be done by a trained monkey!)

This is the only point I disagree with.

Considering the number of people using crimped connections and the number of people that rely on the information in this forum, lets not understate the importance of doing things correctly. Allot of people are going with crimps exclusively in their wiring and the "trained monkey" crimp is a killer. You see too many side cutter crimps done if people get the idea that it is that simple. You need the correct terminals and the correct tools. You also need to know how to use them.

We are all monkeys in the same troop.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

IF wires were subject to that kind of deflection in service, the designer ought to be SHOT.
That just simulates movement over a period of time. If you bend a wire back and forth, even just a few millimeters over thousands of cycles(vibration), the same thing would happen. I worked on missile design where the vibration is so bad that parts will literally vibrate off the board where solder connections crack. We had vibration fixture where we would mount our assemblies on to simulate the buffeting that a missile would go through mounted to the underside of an F-15.

Apparently you now agree that soldering does make a joint not flexible. That was my point which you claimed was an old wives tale.


(With nearly 50 years in the industry, 30 in engineering/design, everything from medical to industrial, you do it your way and I will do it mine.)
Likewise, I am also 30 years in industry as a design engineer. Worked for Delco electronics(automotive), Hughes Aircraft(space and military), cellular base station manufacturers...and others.

We always use crimped connections on ALL wire connections.

The reasons crimps are used today is because it is cheap, fast, and doesn't involve "craftsmanship" (i.e. can be done by a trained monkey!).
No...its becuase they are the most reliable. The tools required in industry to make proper crimp connections can be hundreds of dollars depending on the connector. Try to find any soldered wire connectors on an auto....you won't find them.
 

jhebert

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Re: Butt connector or solder ?

It is difficult to make an inference about how two wires ought to be spliced together from the OEM practices of automotive, aeronautical, or spacecraft assemblers because in general the use of a wire-to-wire splicing is likely prohibited in their OEM practices.

A wire-to-wire splice is by its nature a sub-standard practice, generally used only for repairs or rework. So let's not argue about how NASA does it--NASA likely does not use wire-to-wire splices.

I agree that nowadays in modern electrical devices you see a preponderance of wires terminated in crimped connections, but this is not necessarily because a solder connection would have been inferior. On my boat I typically choose to solder all wire terminations into their terminal connectors. I have never had one break from vibration. By soldering the connection you create a good seal between the wire and the termination. The worry with crimp connections is that water can penetrate into them and cause corrosion. It is difficult for water to penetrate into a soldered connection.

The risk of water intrusion is ever-present in a boat. I think it is a much greater risk than wire fatigue from vibration. I therefore choose to solder most all connections. (If your boat vibrates so badly that solder wire connections rapidly fracture from the movement, your boat has other problems you should attend to first before the conversion to all-crimp connections. Most small boats to not experience the vibrations that occur during a rocket launch.)

An exception are those extremely large diameter conductors; they are typically too large to solder effectively. Terminals for large cables are often dead-ended. If you crimp them and properly seal the wire end, intrusion of water will be minimized.
 
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