Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

[Toddavid]

I have a marine survey on a 2007 Chaparral Sunesta 256 in progress, 10 hrs away.

Inspector just called me up expressing concern over corrosion he sees on the outdrive. Thinks that it is excessive for a boat that has 83 hours on it.

Boat has seen mostly salt water use, hauled out and dry stored after each run (no bottom paint).

He then mentioned that Bravo 3's have a history of corrosion issues, but was unsure what years were particularly susceptible.

A quick search online suggests the problem mostly affected drives from the 90s, when they first came out, due to the lack of anode and the introduction of the stainless dual props (dissimilar metal corrosion). Research online also states that later model Bravo 3's were redesigned with anode receivers.

Unfortunately, surveyor is old school and does not have a camera phone, so cannot send me pics immediately (has to wait until he can download to his laptop).

Here are pics sent to me by the seller during negotiations. I see corrosion at a point on the upper drive and some around the case line where the upper and lower meet.

http://s1066.photobucket.com/albums/u418/Toddavid/?action=view&current=aa45d7f2.jpg

http://s1066.photobucket.com/albums/u418/Toddavid/?action=view&current=50098c4d.jpg



What is considered normal corrosion for a 2007 boat with 83 hours on it? Is there such thing as normal and acceptable corrosion?

Is this a deal breaker? I know a new drive is 6 large deer.


Thanks in advance for advice,

Todd

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

That's some fairly minor corrosion, the corrosion issue on Bravo 3's was not what you see in your pictures but a problem with the wrong material in the lower carrier that was changed.
Keeping boats in salt water causes problems, and even nearby boats or the dock he parked at could have caused the problem.

I would clean up the corroded areas, and repaint, then make sure the anodes are new and correct for where you are going to boat. If you plan on keeping it in the water, then you should do a test of the Mercathode system to make sure it's adequate for your your area.

This is the kind of corrosion you need to worry about.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Todd that corrosion is Nothing to worry about.

This is what you don't want to see:

However, that rear bearing carrier was still sealing oil and water. And you can NOT see this with the props on.
But I assure you, the corrosion on the rest of that drive was WAY worse than those few little minor spots on that drive you are looking at.

 

[Toddavid]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Thanks, gentlemen.

Yes, I have seen some horrible images of corrosion after scrambling to research this issue in the last few hours. I definitely agree "my" outdrive corrosion pales in comparison, and am relieved not to see any around the prop shaft in my pics (which seems would have been a huge red flag). I just didn't know what level of corrosion was "normal."

If this is nothing to stress about in terms of a survey, what is recommended course of action to stop or slow down the existing coating breach? Can the seam corrosion be repaired without splitting the case? I understand that regular anode replacement will help avoid this in the future, but are there repairs to the finish that can be done without major work? Would the seller laugh at me if I wanted a price concession over this?


Todd

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Would the seller laugh at me if I wanted a price concession over this?

Probably, it is a used boat.

what is recommended course of action to stop or slow down the existing coating breach?
are there repairs to the finish

That depends on how crazy you want to go with the repair, I would wire brush it off clean, sand smooth, primer, and paint with some Rustolem black paint and move on.

A lot depends on if you keep the boat in the water or trailer it each time.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Listen to Don's post above this, and his first one. That's all the info you need.

 

[emoney]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

I dunno, I think I can see why the surveyor is bringing it to your attention, at the very least. 83 hours on a 5 year old boat that's been dry stored and supposedly cleaned after each use, really shouldn't have hardly ANY corrosion. My lower unit is 17 years old, has been in salt water all it's life, is lift kept and rinsed & flushed after every use and shows about the same, and maybe even less.

Sorry, that's the only pic I've got and it was taken about a month ago. Now, by no means am I saying that the corrosion showing is a cause for huge concern, because I'm not. But, what I am saying is that given the information the surveyor was given, he has done the right thing and he's bringing up a possible area of concern. Not that the corrosion shown will cause problems, but more of a "heads up" as to what may lie INSIDE the LU.

I reiterate, I'm not trying to spook you, because it is a small spot, but a lot of folks that aren't use to Salt Water have this belief that as soon as you put your boat in the water it starts to get cancer everywhere and that's just not the case. Taking care of it and 17 years later and you're still not seeing "salt water use"...if that even makes sense. Good luck and I hope you enjoy the heck out of it.

**EDIT** Looking at that corrosion down the seam in PIC 2, would lead me to want to see the inside of the LU. It's only what, 4 or 5 bolts to unscrew, but I want to see, at the very least, what's inside there as I'm assuming the Surveyor wasn't paid to do this. Did your contract with him include a complete mechanical survey or just an overall survey?

 

[OllieC]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

My B3 looks about the same condition as yours and I just broke 300 hrs. I also trailer mine. I will probably do what Don say's next spring. Make sure your Anodes are up to par......

 

[rick3452]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

This was my Bravo 3 after just a few months left in brackish water, so I decided to get it on a lift Quick.
You will love the handeling of the B-3, go for it....

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

That outdrive looks fine, actually quite good. No corrosion where the problems of old existed, which was right around the prop. Nothing that you would want to spoil a deal over.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

This was my Bravo 3 after just a few months left in brackish water, so I decided to get it on a lift Quick.
You will love the handeling of the B-3, go for it....

Rick, I knew someone on here had a photo worse than mine! Mine was from 2 years in freshwater (7 months a piece) when I was mistakenly turning OFF my Mercathode system! Yikes!

 

[Toddavid]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Thanks everyone.

I chatted with the surveyor for about 45 minutes this evening. He apparently spent most of the day inspecting and sea trialling.

He said overall it is a great looking boat, with some minor system issues (rusted out fire extinguisher, non working VHF, dim GPS, cracked front and rear swim ladder hatch covers, tatty carpet), but his major concern was that it appeared the lower drive may have been replaced, or at least the cover had. On close inspection, he found inventory decals on the lower drive cover, suggesting a replacement. It was not freshly replaced and had some use evident, but that could account for why the lower half of the drive looks so much better than upper in the photos I posted.

He didn't say "run away" and suggested that if the boat was selling for 5-6k lower than average, it would still be a good deal (in his unofficial opinion). In fact, it is selling for even lower than that, but I truly don't want a time bomb on my hands, no matter the price (marooning my wife and 5 year old out on the lake is not worth saving a few large deer). On the other hand, he was able to confirm via ECM scan that the hr meter is correct, and in fact the engine has spent the vast majority of its life below 1500 rpms. No operational issues noted in the sea trial, ran very well.

He'll be formally writing up the survey report tomorrow, and I suppose I need the completed document before I ring up the seller.

I'm really conflicted on this one. I've been spending way too much time boat searching, and I thought I finally cornered a decent candidate.



Todd

 

[emoney]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Todd, the thing is when it comes to buying ANY boat, and that includes NEW, there's no way to guarantee that you won't encounter an issue. The reason you hired a surveyor was to give a professional's opinion of the boat, and that's what the report will say. Having said that, I don't think you'll ever find one that gets a perfect mark, because quite frankly that's not the nature of the beast. However, from what you've posted, nothing about what's been noted should preclude you from buying this boat. It sounds like the price has taken into consideration both market conditions and current condition of the boat. Knowing what you know, and based on what you've posted, I think you've got a great opportunity in this boat. Switching out a VHF is nothing, especially when someone's gone to the effort of installing one in the first place (wiring/antenna is already in place). As to "future problems", heck man it's all a "crap shoot", lol. And, you have to be somewhat of an optimist to enjoy boating anyway.

Look at this way; if given the option between 2 boats both valued at let's say $50,000 and boat "A" has a few minor, known issues and is selling for $40,000.00 or boat "B" has NO known issues and is selling for $50,000.00 you've now got $10,000 left to fix anything that MIGHT go wrong in the future in Boat A, as opposed to ZERO set aside for Boat B. They're both going to break, that much I can assure you. Knowing that, which one is the better deal?

 

[BoatDrinksQ5]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Yes and like many people find out - even a well maintained boat and even a new boat can have issues arise a year or two down the road. Just like a car.

Sounds like you could talk to the owner and ask about the lower unit (without saying much of what you know right away maybe) just to feel them out...

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

If the lower unit was replaced, but not real recently, it's because it probably hit something. The fact that the upper wasn't replaced and the whole unit has been run some since the replacement is a good thing. The lower unit doesn't have the most complicated stuff in it. That's in the upper. So if they have been operating as a unit for a while, there is probably no "hidden" damage to the upper. And the surveyor didn't find hull damage, right? So in my opinion, no big deal that the lower has been replaced.

 

[Toddavid]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

Right, no hull damage observed.

My concern here is that the dealer selling the boat has been very frustrating to deal with. He has been abrupt and evasive with his answers. Some people down in his area say that's just the way he is, but it sure does not give the buyer (me) a good feeling about him.

While the lower drive housing could have been swapped out due to a collision, perhaps it was swapped out due to heavy prior corrosion, as hinted to by the upper drive condition. Without a tear down, I can't know about the condition of the seals and bearings inside the lower drive, right? How hard is it to swap just the lower housing and leave the rest of the lower drive internals intact?

I have to wonder if this is a cover up job to hide something worse. The fact that the carpets seem to have been swapped with a higher use boat adds to my suspicion.

I haven't confronted the seller about this yet, waiting for the formal report from the surveyor.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

It's VERY labor intensive to switch over the gears and stuff from one housing to another. I will almost "guarantee" you that the ENTIRE lower unit was switched. And sure it could have been due to corrosion on the rear bearing carrier. But if the corrosion had been so bad as to let the drive leak in water, or leak out oil, the Upper would have needed to be replaced also.

The BEST way to see the condition of a Bravo 3 drive in regards to corrosion, is to REMOVE the props and look at the rear bearing carrier. You can't see it with the props on.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

...

I have to wonder if this is a cover up job to hide something worse. The fact that the carpets seem to have been swapped with a higher use boat adds to my suspicion...

I'll assume it's snap in carpet. But I wouldn't put a whole lot into that either. My 1997 Chaparral had glued in carpet (wood floor) that looked trampled down from the day it was new. And others have had the same thing. And it wasn't "cheap" carpet, because it still looked the exact same way 12 years and 800 hours later.

 

[jtracc]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...



12 yr old alpha 1 motor no corrosion.

 

[Toddavid]

Re: Bravo 3 corrosion: What is normal? Help...

It's VERY labor intensive to switch over the gears and stuff from one housing to another. I will almost "guarantee" you that the ENTIRE lower unit was switched. And sure it could have been due to corrosion on the rear bearing carrier. But if the corrosion had been so bad as to let the drive leak in water, or leak out oil, the Upper would have needed to be replaced also.

The BEST way to see the condition of a Bravo 3 drive in regards to corrosion, is to REMOVE the props and look at the rear bearing carrier. You can't see it with the props on.

Thanks for telling me this. I am a complete newb when it comes to boats, so I was unsure if a lower drive cover replacement was a simple procedure or not. I had heard the lower drive removal was only a few bolts, and since the exterior was referred to as a cover, I assumed there was an interior carrier assembly.

This makes me feel a bit better about the issue. Same with your comments about the snap in carpet. Without the photos from the surveyor, my imagination may be getting the better of me, and the attitude of the dealer was the original cause of that.

I'll sit tight and wait for the surveyor report due in tomorrow.