Bowrider With an Outboard

[mgmidget72]

Hi All,

I want to get a 16'-18' bowrider for skiing and general tooling around in the Long Island Sound and rivers in Connecticut. Because of where I'll be keeping the boat (sitting in the mud at low tide), I'm limited to an outboard so my choices are few and far between. Max price is $10,000, but I'd like to stay well below that. I don't need anything fancy, but I don't want a project either. Probably nothing older than 1989. Depending on the year, Sea Rays and Four Winns with an outboard are available in my price range.

Which one is better? Any others to consider?

Thanks!
Scott

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

I am very impressed by the Four Winns Horizon 170 with a 90HP (or bigger) outboard. It's really a very nice boat and you could easily find one much newer than 1989 for much less than 10 grand. The 180 model with a 150 HP outboard would be nice too.

A friend of mine bought a 2001 model (if memory serves) 170, in excellent shape, last year in north New Jersey for $6500. It is equipped with a 90 HP Johnson ocean series and came with a trailer, a bimini, and a cockpit cover.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

there are lots of 17' boats that will fit your needs; look at the "dual console" and "fish n ski" set up, which is functionally the same as a bow rider; seating in the front, split consoles; steering on the side. The best advantage of an OB in that size is more room inside the boat, and they can be lighter.

Since you are in shallow water, consider a cathedral hull or at least a modified V like on the "bay boat" design. Even though you want to buy used, gt an idea of hull and set-up options by looking at new boats on Grady WHite, Sea Hunt, Boston Whaler and Carolina Skiff.

 

[mgmidget72]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

I do like the dual-consoles and have been keeping an eye out for them too, but they've been out of my price range. I continue to be drawn to center consoles based purely on how they look, and appear more sturdy/substantial than your typical bowrider, but they're just not practical for how I want to use the boat (I don't fish at all). So the dual-console seems to be a nice merging, if only there were some near by in my price range.

Also, I think I'd like to stick to a V hull since the Long Island Sound can get pretty choppy and I don't want to be pounding. It's really only shallow where I'll be keeping the boat - once I get out, I'll have plenty of water.

Mischief - great to hear your positive experiences with Four Winns.
Thanks,
Scott

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

I love my Four Winns.

It seems that the generation from 1997-2004/05 was a really well liked boat. This generation has a full fiberglass cockpit liner standard and a few different seating options.

There isn't much more to say, other than, good luck on finding the right boat.

 

[mgmidget72]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Rotary - thanks for your comments. You say that it has a full fiberglass cockpit liner. Why is this notable? Do you know if similar generation Sea Rays have this feature?

I've seen both Four Winns Freedoms and Horizons listed. As far as I can tell from reading the listings, there isn't anything different between the two. Do you know what the distinction is?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[etracer68]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Joanne(other half), and I went to the boat show just to look this year. I was looking at the single console boats, and staying to her how much more space they had to offer, she said, whit a stern look in her eye, "What about me, I dont want to get wet either, while your crashing through them waves". Needless to say, I stopped looking at the single console.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Rotary - thanks for your comments. You say that it has a full fiberglass cockpit liner. Why is this notable? Do you know if similar generation Sea Rays have this feature?

I don't know if Sea Rays have full cockpit liners or not, but having owned both types (with and without liners) of fiberglass boats, I would never buy another without a liner. They are vastly superior to carpeted plywood cockpits.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

A "single console" (center console) has little to do with how wet someone gets. That's a function of hull and skipper. Granted, a closed bow/full windshield gives some protection from spray, but if you are in constant spray (and don't like it) you are out of your boat's element.

Mgmidget, the center console is a great option for a general purpose boat whether you fish or not. There's a good reason why they are the most popular family boat design for their size in a community with experienced boaters. The designs available include lots of comfortable seating arrangements, fore and aft, and you always get more open space (roominess) for the size. Plus you often get a boat with a more seaworthy design and less maintenance required.

Joanne(other half), and I went to the boat show just to look this year. I was looking at the single console boats, and staying to her how much more space they had to offer, she said, whit a stern look in her eye, "What about me, I dont want to get wet either, while your crashing through them waves". Needless to say, I stopped looking at the single console.

 

[mgmidget72]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Home Cookin' - Do you have any examples of center consoles that matches a bowrider (or dual console) for usable seating? The only ones I've seen in the 16'-18' range have seating for the captain, maybe a cooler with a cushion in front of the helm, a hard surface at the bow, and maybe some jump seats in the back that may or may not be padded. For skiing, the spotter would have to either be standing up or watching from the bow, looking through the captain.

I'm not trying to argue here, but am truly interested. Like I said before, I even prefer the center console type boats, but don't see them being as practical for my expected use. At least they're easier to find with an outboard than bow-riders.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Rotary - thanks for your comments. You say that it has a full fiberglass cockpit liner. Why is this notable? Do you know if similar generation Sea Rays have this feature?

I've seen both Four Winns Freedoms and Horizons listed. As far as I can tell from reading the listings, there isn't anything different between the two. Do you know what the distinction is?

Thanks,
Scott

I'm not sure if/when Sea Ray went to fiberglass liners as standard. Sea Rays are nice boats, however, I see fewer of those with outboards than Four Winns. As noted by Mischief, I will never own a boat that doesn't have a full fiberglass liner again.

To your question about Horizon/Freedom. Four Winns introduced a new 18' and ~17' Horizon in 1997. They called them QX (16'-6") and RX (18'). This hull design and Horizon name was used for both I/O and outboard boats. They dropped the QX/RX designation in 1999 and call them 180 and 170 Horizons.

In 2003 they introduced a new Horizon hull design and only offered it with I/O power. They kept the previous hull design in production and called them Freedom to distinguish between the 2 hulls. This Freedom (older hull) was still offered with I/O and Outboard power.

Then in 2005 they went through another transition. They dropped the older 170/QX Horizon/Freedom hull. They kept the 180/RX Horizon/Freedom hull and called it the 180 Horizon LE. This was the last year that the hull was available and it was still offered with I/O and Outboard power.

Basically, what that all means is that if you find a Four Winns with an Outboard built between 1997 and 2005 it will be the same hull and basic design in any of those years. It doesn't matter if it says Freedom or Horizon on the side. It is the same boat.

 

[etracer68]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Home Cooking, I do alot of my boating on Lake Michigan, and Big Green Lake. Theres going to be times where the weather is going to change, and not be ideal anymore. I may be 1 to 10 miles from the dock. I always have my ship to shore radio on, and track the weather. Things can change fast. I may have to put the open bow cover on, close the walk through, and beat feet back(not WOT, a safe speed), and catch spray all the way back. Depending on the wind and the waves, and may even have to ZIG ZAG some. So there are going to be times when your out of your boats element, has nothing to do with the skipper.

 

[QC]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

I love Scoutabout's boat: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=463289&p=3132968#post3132968

 

[pokman]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

For 10k you should be able to get something in the late 90's early 2000's for sure. I am currently looking at a 96 horizon 170 fish/ski and really like four winns qaulity and look. Sea Ray is nice to but like someone else said finding a newer one with a OB is hard to do. Rotary racer I emailed you a while back about the hull changes on four winns, I have another question, were any 96's built with the fiberglass liner?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

http://seahuntboats.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=105&Itemid=131

This almost 19' boat seats two at the helm, one in front on the box, two in the stern, and two or three in the bow (subject to capacity of course). You can add removable cushions to the bow seating area, or give them throwables. The "fish lockers" are great storage or built-in coolers since they drain (although insulation is slim). At the helm, you can have a leaning post instead of a bench, but the flip-flop seat is great versatility.

For skiing, the spotter is in the bow. He sees the skiier and the skipper's eyes, and relays signals directly. The skipper has a direct view of the spotter. The console is not in the way to any degree that matters. I also clip a small mirror on my windshield so the skipper can know what's going on behind him, too. When I had bow riders we always put the spotter in the bow for the same reason.

When I stand on my pier I can see 13 boats between 15 and 22 feet. 2 are walk-arounds and 1 is a dual console. All the rest are center consoles. One, a Parker, is used by the teenage boys for fishing and its seating is sparse. Several are never used for fishing. All are used for general family boating: cruising, sight seeing, trips to a waterfront restaurant, fishing/crabbing, skiing and tubing. Most of these boaters have been on the river a long time and some (like me) grew up on it. Our water is similar to a lake in places, but it connects to a harbor then the bay then the ocean. None need to be covered (except most of us cover the console) and they are in the water or on lifts all winter. At the boat club nearby, the boats kept on trailers are almost all CC's. Low maintenance, turn key fun.

etracer, I'm not sure of your point--I was trying to say that whether a boat is a bow rider or other open design, has little to do with how wet it gets in dicey weather. Then, everyone is going to get wet somewhat. Hull design rather than "cockpit" design has more to do with it. I agree there is a little more protection with a full windshield, but a good spoon bow is even better.

ETA the Sea Hunt Ultra has built-in cushions in the bow and bench seat in the stern. However, I don't know if there are other manufacturers who have this and assume the used inventory is scarce. The one I mentions above is typcial of most brands of center consoles.
http://seahuntboats.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=20&Itemid=67

 

[Bartine]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

I'm not sure if/when Sea Ray went to fiberglass liners as standard. Sea Rays are nice boats, however, I see fewer of those with outboards than Four Winns. As noted by Mischief, I will never own a boat that doesn't have a full fiberglass liner again.

To your question about Horizon/Freedom. Four Winns introduced a new 18' and ~17' Horizon in 1997. They called them QX (16'-6") and RX (18'). This hull design and Horizon name was used for both I/O and outboard boats. They dropped the QX/RX designation in 1999 and call them 180 and 170 Horizons.

In 2003 they introduced a new Horizon hull design and only offered it with I/O power. They kept the previous hull design in production and called them Freedom to distinguish between the 2 hulls. This Freedom (older hull) was still offered with I/O and Outboard power.

Then in 2005 they went through another transition. They dropped the older 170/QX Horizon/Freedom hull. They kept the 180/RX Horizon/Freedom hull and called it the 180 Horizon LE. This was the last year that the hull was available and it was still offered with I/O and Outboard power.

Basically, what that all means is that if you find a Four Winns with an Outboard built between 1997 and 2005 it will be the same hull and basic design in any of those years. It doesn't matter if it says Freedom or Horizon on the side. It is the same boat.

Do you know the difference in the 94-96 Freedoms and Horizons? As far as I can tell they look identical too.

 

[Bartine]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

For 10k you should be able to get something in the late 90's early 2000's for sure. I am currently looking at a 96 horizon 170 fish/ski and really like four winns qaulity and look. Sea Ray is nice to but like someone else said finding a newer one with a OB is hard to do. Rotary racer I emailed you a while back about the hull changes on four winns, I have another question, were any 96's built with the fiberglass liner?

94-96 didn't have fiberglass floors. That started in 1997. I own a 95 Freedom Fish and Ski. If (when) the floor goes bad I will be replacing mine and adding a fiberglass top and snap in carpet. I use mine for fishing occasionally and it would be so nicer to clean the floor if there was no carpet in it when fishing.

 

[mgmidget72]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Home Cookin' - Thanks for the CC suggestion! Sounds like depending on the model, I don't have to completely rule that style out.

Just checked the 1999 Sea Ray 180 brochure and it lists Integral Fiberglass Floor System in the cockpit features section. Not sure when it started, but at least was there by 1999.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Rotary racer I emailed you a while back about the hull changes on four winns, I have another question, were any 96's built with the fiberglass liner?

YES, a fiberglass cockpit liner was an option on the 1994-1996 180/190 Horizons. That being said, I haven't seen too many that have that option. I have seen a few boats that are said to be 1996s that are actually the hull that was officially released as 1997. Those would have a fiberglass liner.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Bowrider With an Outboard

Do you know the difference in the 94-96 Freedoms and Horizons? As far as I can tell they look identical too.

In 1994, when they introduced the new hull design they called the 17' boats Freedoms and the 18' (actually 19 LOA) Horizons. In 1995 they actually dropped the 170 and just called that boat FREEDOM without a length designation. They also renamed what had been the 180 Horizon to 190 Horizon in 1995. They also bumped what had been called the 190 Horizon up to the 200 Horizon. This boat was also available with OB power.

In 1996 they renamed what had been just FREEDOM in 95 to the 170 Horizon.