Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Thoughts guys?<br /><br />Boat owners say they were fearful during Coast Guard search<br /><br />By VIRGINIA HENNESSEY<br />Herald Staff Writer<br /><br />Two of the Moss Landing Harbor residents who were the subjects of random boat searches during Labor Day Weekend say their experiences were closer to armed invasions than the friendly "safety inspections" characterized by U.S. Coast Guard officials.<br /><br />Both residents said search crews entered the harbor in inflatable boats with machine guns mounted on their bows. Then, carrying M-16 rifles, they approached residents and boarded and searched their boats in the name of safety and "homeland security."<br /><br />One resident, who asked not to be identified for fear or retribution, said his experience was "very intimidating, very frightening."<br /><br />"To me it reeks of Nazi Germany and the death squads in Argentina," he said. "I don't want my name on their list."<br /><br />Scott Jones, a live-aboard resident who was searched, said there has been talk in the harbor about contacting the American Civil Liberties Union, but he first wants to hear further from the Coast Guard about its future intentions.<br /><br />Lt. Mark Warren of the Monterey Coast Guard Station said he has heard mostly positive response to the operation, but may rethink future actions given current criticisms.<br /><br />"We take lessons and learn from these types of operations. If the public is genuinely distasteful of it, we might not do it," he said. "I'm not saying we won't, but I'm not saying we will."<br /><br />In addition to trying to ensure the safety of boats on the bay during the holiday weekend, Warren said, the operation was part of an effort to increase the public's awareness of the Coast Guard's role as a law enforcement agency under the Department of Homeland Security. He said the public might have been surprised to see weaponry that is now standard issue to all Homeland Security forces.<br /><br />"I, as a U.S. citizen, am highly offended by that," said Jones, who is accustomed to Coast Guard boardings when he sails. "When a sheriff's deputy drives down the road or a CHP officer drives down the road and I see them, I'm aware of his job, and not because he's pulled me over and put a gun to my head.<br /><br />"The Coast Guard's needs would be better served by an advertising campaign," he said, "rather than bullying people in their bedrooms at 10:30 at night."<br /><br />Jones said he and his wife were sleeping when they were awakened by knocking on the side of the boat.<br /><br />He went to the deck and was confronted by two armed officers asking if they could come aboard. Thinking something had happened in the harbor that the officers needed to talk to him about, Jones acquiesced.<br /><br />"It seemed a little unreasonable at 10:30 at night," he said, "but it was the middle of the night and I was half asleep, so I said 'OK.' At this point, I looked out and saw six to eight officers (on the dock) and all appeared armed."<br /><br />The officers boarded his boat and quickly spread out beyond the immediate deck without invitation, saying they were conducting a safety inspection.<br /><br />"I can say with all certainly that what they did was not a safety inspection or in any way related to a safety inspection," he said. The officers demanded access to the bilge, saying they wanted to make sure the boat wasn't taking on water.<br /><br />"This was highly suspect," Jones said. "If you're on board, you'd know if you were taking on water."<br /><br />When Jones showed them the bilge, the officers repeatedly, and with increasing forcefulness, demanded to know if there were other accesses to the bilge. They also "demanded" the driver's licenses of everyone on board.<br /><br />Increasingly upset by the nature of the search, Jones asked for the officers' authority and justification. One officer read to him from a federal code authorizing the search.<br /><br />"It was either the Patriot Act or homeland security,"Jones said.<br /><br />Warren said the officers would not have cited the Patriot Act because it affords the Coast Guard no additional authority.<br /><br />Jones conceded he may have heard "homeland security" and registered "Patriot Act," but still feels the search was unwarranted and in a gray area of the law at best.<br /><br />"I wouldn't question their professionalism, but I do question their motive and their authority," he said. "To me, it sounds like something that an ACLU lawyer would just tear apart."<br /><br />Coast Guard officials say they are authorized by maritime law to board and search vessels on U.S. waters, including waters that lead to U.S. waters, to enforce federal laws.<br /><br />Warren said the officers were attempting to ensure the safety and compliance of docked boats by checking for oily water in their bilges and that their sanitation devices were in locked position. Some searches were conducted at night in an effort to catch boats before they went onto the bay for the weekend.<br /><br />The second boat owner who spoke to The Herald said his boat was searched after he challenged officers who were searching other boats, at 10:30 p.m. Sept. 2, and during the morning on following days. Told they were acting as Homeland Security officers, he asked what they were protecting the harbor from.<br /><br />"Terrorists," he said he was told by the officers, who exhorted him to "remember the Cole," referring to the October 2000 attack by terrorists on the USS Cole that killed 17 sailors.<br /><br />"The only terrorists down here are you guys," he told them. "You're scaring the hell out of me with that machine gun."<br /><br />While Warren was noncommittal about future searches, he said it is important for the public to know the Coast Guard's presence will be increased.<br /><br />"The Coast Guard's focus on homeland security has increased our presence on the water and will continue to increase our presence simply because that's what Congress is wanting us to do right now," he said. "The concern at the congressional level about the security of ports is pretty high."<br /><br /><br /> http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/m...09.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Us bikers have put up with that crap for years, and now, don't say we didn't warn you. All kinds of crap will soon be on your list of BS. It started with helmets.........pretty soon you will be wearing them in cars. Think not? Did you wear a helmet as a kid? Of course not. But your kids are, and the nerdy ones will make the future rules, and, well, do the proverbial math
 

Holdimhook

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Messages
648
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Ralph, at the risk of turning this into a political free for all, (and it is not my intention to do so), I have always believed that the Patriot Act would do more harm than good, and that it is a result of either a well- intentioned kneejerk reaction or the administration's use of these perilous times to further political agendas. I think these "safety inspections" are only one example of just how ugly the results of the Patriot Act can be. I hope this doesn't result in a flamefest because it's just my $.02, nothing more.
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Originally posted by Holdimhook:<br /> I have always believed that the Patriot Act would do more harm than good,
Agreed...just made us the possible criminals, or a great way to feel up old ladies at the airport
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Permission to come aboard, DENIED!............. :mad:
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

This has nothing to do with the Patriot Act. The law that allows the USCG to board you is Maratime law that dates back to 1700s....
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Here is another realted story...<br /><br />Coast Guard raids moored harbor vessels<br /><br />By VIRGINIA HENNESSEY Herald Staff Writer <br /><br />The Coast Guard boarded and inspected close to 30 vessels, many of them docked, in Monterey Bay over the Labor Day weekend in a operation that raised the eyebrows of some local boaters and the ire of one. <br /><br />The operation -- conducted in conjunction with the Monterey County Sheriff's Office, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration -- netted one arrest in Moss Landing Harbor and terminated the voyages of five vessels that were deemed unsafe.<br /><br />In all, 28 boats, many of them live-aboard vessels that were moored in the harbors, were boarded and 31 citations were issued. One angry boater said Coast Guard officers came aboard his boat in Moss Landing Harbor late Friday citing authority under the Patriot Act.<br /><br />In an e-mail to The Herald, Lowell Jones of Moss Landing said the Coast Guard did a "blanket boarding" in the harbor, "searching boats, and invading people's privacy at 10:30 p.m. They justified this intrusion by citing the Patriot Act. <br /><br />"The locals are not happy, and the boating community as a whole has expressed concerns over privacy relating to such dockside boardings of legal live-aboard residents," he wrote. <br /><br />Coast Guard officials said the operation was not in response to any particular law enforcement report and that search warrants are not required for such inspections. <br /><br />"It wasn't a drill. But it wasn't in response to any Homeland Security threat we received," said Gabriel Flesher, chief of the Coast Guard's San Francisco division, which oversees Homeland Security issues in the area. "The exercise was developed as a random operation with local law enforcement agencies (and) we have the authority to board dockside." <br /><br />Lt. Todd Moe of the Coast Guard's Monterey division said the operation was directed at boating safety during the busiest boating weekend of the year and was authorized under maritime law dating to the 1700s, which gives the Coast Guard jurisdiction over federal waters, including waterways that lead to the open seas. <br /><br />Jon Copley, chief of the Coast Guard's law enforcement division in San Francisco, said he would be "very surprised" if one of the agency's officers cited the Patriot Act. <br /><br />The U.S. Code allows the Coast Guard to "make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction... of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship's documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance." <br /><br />Moe said "99 percent of the feedback" he'd received was positive and that the operation resulted in the safest Labor Day on record on the Monterey Bay. The Coast Guard was called out to only one incident. <br /><br />Safety violations that were cited included boats lacking floatation and fire-extinguishing devices and proper documentation. Moe said he did not know the identity of the one man who was arrested by the Sheriff's Office possession of marijuana and an illegal weapon. The deputies involved in the arrest were not available on Tuesday. <br /><br />Harbormasters in Monterey, Moss Landing and Santa Cruz said they were not notified in advance of the operation. Moss Landing Harbormaster Linda McIntyre said she supports the Coast Guard's efforts to improve safety on the bay, but added that she'd never known the agency to do "door-to-door" inspections of docked vessels. <br /><br />She said she had received complaints by some residents, but heard others praise the guard. <br /><br />Monterey Harbormaster Steve Scheiblauer said in his 30 years as a harbormaster in Monterey and Santa Cruz, he'd never heard of any law enforcement agency randomly searching vessels being used as homes. Like several other harbormasters, Scheiblauer was under the impression the Coast Guard's blanket boarding authorization applied only to vessels that were underway. <br /><br />"That is, on the face of it, pretty preposterous. They can board boats when they're underway. But when a boat is tied up, particularly as a residence, I don't think there's any probable cause to go aboard and search. As a random search, that would be very controversial, I would think, among the public." <br /><br />Kimbra Eldridge, operations manager of the Santa Cruz Harbor, said her agency does not board boats "unless we have a particular cause." <br /><br />Reports of the Coast Guard's operation also came as a surprise to Eric Endersby, chief harbor patrol officer in Morro Bay Harbor. <br /><br />"The Coast Guard has the authority to board any vessel that's underway," he said. "But boats in slips are not underway and my understanding was the Coast Guard didn't have authority to board a boat that's tied up in a slip." <br /><br />"That's a little scary," he added. <br /><br />Andy Turpin, senior editor at Latitude 38, a widely read sailing magazine in Marin County, said Coast Guard boardings in the San Francisco Bay Area were an "accepted annoyance." <br /><br />"It's common to be boarded and it's something you have to put up with," he said. <br /><br />The practice was even more common during the height of the "zero tolerance" drug wars, he said, but even then, the Coast Guard did not randomly board docked boats. <br /><br />"I have never heard of that happening up here," he said. "Before 9/11, when they had a little more time on their hands, they would come to a marina and offer free safety inspections and give you a sticker to keep you from being boarded on your Sunday sail."
 

Holdimhook

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Messages
648
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

I guess it has more to do with the USCG's interpersonal skills, or lack thereof. If the boat owner's description of their method of boarding was accurate, they were more than a little heavy handed. LT. Warren said he had recieved a mostly positive response to the operation. I would be interested to see if he could produce some of those responses.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Please, someobody tell me this isn't true. I am losing it!! You guys seem awfully OK with this.<br /><br />I don't, however, believe this has anything to do with Homeland Security or other sinister gov't thing. Personally, it sounds like one renegade (or stupid) dude. I sure hope so!!
 

ZodFutMk2

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
162
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

I've read the article. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it state that the USCG did their stunt over the entire Monterey Bay? <br /><br />So, how come we haven't heard anything from the tree huggers in Santa Cruz harbor or the hot heads in Monterey harbor? Santa Cruz has folks that stay on their boats and so does Monterey. <br /><br />Interesting that the Coasties ran their RIBs across the bay in the dark. Moss Landing isn't exactly twenty minutes away from the station in Monterey and the mouth of the harbor isn't really fun to navigate at night.<br /><br />Wonder if this had anything to do with the major marijuana busts that recently went down locally. Especially since they wanted access to the bilges.<br /><br />Also note that it wasn't just the Coasties involved in the "inspections".<br /><br />A bit hard nosed, yes. Firepower excessive? Our night duty police officers carry guns on both hips, nothing like encountering a cop with dual Glock 17's or 19's. Every other highway patrol car carries an M16 on the dash. Areas of Monterey county are second to Oakland for gun homicides.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents worth.
 

imported_Curmudgeon

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
496
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Personally, it sounds like one renegade (or stupid) dude.<br /><br />Spounds more like a pissed off boat owner. If it was you, and you thought your civil rights were being violated, how likely would you be to say the officers said "please and thank you", wiped their feet, asked for permission to do weverything they did (without really needing to), etc, ad nauseum.<br /><br />The same folks probably screamed about 9/11, too. The problem is "protection" isn't a cafeteria deal - in for a penny, in for a pound! They're welcome on my boat anythime ... ;)
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Remember guys, you only have one person's word for the way the USCG acted (Jones)... note in the second article 99% were complimentary. Think you'd only have one person screaming if this was as described? Does this jive with anyone's experience with the CG?
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

What would you do if some armed government looking dude showed up at your front DOOR of your HOUSE at 10:30 at night? Don't know about you but, at my house, he would meet the same, only I aint from the government, and its my land. Anyone found here at night, will be found here in the morning. :eek:
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Originally posted by Ralph:<br /> Here is another related story...<br /><br /><br />The operation -- conducted in conjunction with the Monterey County Sheriff's Office, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration --
The INS and Customs?!?!?!?! These pointless bastids let thousands of illegals cross our southern border, refuse to deport the DC sniper, allowed the 9-11 terrorists to destroy the WTC, and they are terrorizing peaceable folks trying to enjoy a vacation weekend on their private boats?!?!?!? Where is my AK-47 and 2000 rounds of armor piercing ammo? Oh, it's right here. GOOD!
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

In some states it is legal to use any force necessary to resist unlawful arrest, including deadly force. This should also include unlawful search and seizure. I for one do not need the state or federal officers to help me do anything. The only reason I ever the local cops is because laws prevent me from taking the law into my own hands and handling things way better than our crappy judicial system ever could.
 

wildbill59

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
395
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Pardon me but I think the grand expeiriment we call freedom is over. Please watch the link of an actual news story on gubbermint coming to the unwanted rescue of a law abiding citizen. <br />unwanted intrusion<br /><br />Notice that the street in front of the women's house is bone dry.
 

wildbill59

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
395
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

gunconfiscate1.jpg
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

Yeah, I got a question, when does the revolution start?
 

magster65

Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Messages
2,573
Re: Boat owners fearful during Coast Guard search

It does seem like our freedom is slipping away...
 
Top