Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ?? UPDATED

[rentprop1]

with out going into a long story, I just give you some simple facts :

my boat runs like crap ( fine at idle, but will not get over 3900 rpm at WOT )
I live about 30 min from the water
once at the water its about 30 min of no wake till I can open up

main question : how much work can a mechanic do at a shop or better in the parking lot of the ramp ?, meaning with out a test tank ( just the ear muffs ) how can the mechanic address carb issues which would require adjustment at WOT ?? ...or carb cleaning which would require a test run after ?

where would the average mechanic start his time from for payment, the time we leave the dock right ?? what about the time it would take to get to open water - get back to the dock, get it on the trailer and work on the boat in the parking lot, its a busy ramp and I really don't think you can work on your boat at the dock, would have to be in the parking lot.

reason I am asking seems like every mechanic around here wants you to bring the boat to their shop, repairs on the water or at the dock seem like I asking to sleep with their daughter on the first date.....my beef is if the mechanic meets me at the dock, goes for a test ride and then wants to take it back to his shop, after he fixes it, I would have to take it all the way back to the water and it's still not fixed, start from scratch again

 

[rentprop1]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

can you really make WOT adjustments in a test tank ?????

BTW its a 22 foot pontoon and a 60 Merc Bigfoot if that matters, my question is mainly about trying to figure out how the mechanics I have called think and get what I need vs. not getting charged out the butt for drive/down time, yes I do appreciate their time, but there has to be a meeting in the middle somewhere.

 

[bhammer]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

What WOT adjustments are there to make? Need a little history.. Has it always been this way? Replaced a prop latley? This could be as simple as propping the boat correct or the carb needs rebuilt.

Take a look up at the Adults Only sticky and look at the one called won't make WOT and that should find the problem.

 

[rentprop1]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

did not replace a prop, but had this one reconditioned, I wondered if I actually got the same one back I dropped off, thus the difference in WOT rpms, but the motor at WOT seems like it spitts and would go faster if the carbs were working properly.....

the carbs were cleaned just 2 boat trips ago.........it was adjusted in a test tank at the last guys shop never adjusted on the water.

 

[bhammer]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

How were WOT before the prop fix? If fine, that is the frst place I would look. Do you have a prop you can borrow from a friend? I am no expert and I don't know your engine but I don't think there are any adjustments to be made at WOT.

Cleaning a carb can help, but a rebuild is the only way to go to make sure it is operating to specs.

 

[rentprop1]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

rpm were about 5200 at WOT before, I will see if the hub is loose and possible check to swap a prop

where is this adults only sticky, I even searched for it, found were people were discussing the topic, but still do not see a sticky called adults only

how about a direct link...thanks

 

[bhammer]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Sorry, it is over in the mercruiser I/O forum: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=288430

If you were getting those WOT before, I would suspect the prop. I don't think it would be a losse hub as that would allow your engine to run past WOT.
I would find the prop that is right for your boat and get one to see what happens. It is always good to have a backup prop anyways. Head over to the prop forum and post your boat size, weight, engine size, WOT limits (found on the engine) and ask if anyone knows what size you need.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Whether or not the mechanic takes the boat on a test ride would depend on the nature of the problem or repair, the condition of the boat, and location.
I've seen many boats which I wouldn't dream of putting in the water for a test run due to condition or lack of paperwork.
I would accompany a customer on a test run if it's in the water.
It sounds to me like you have several problems going on, if the WOT RPMs were higher before, it may well have been due to a slipping hub not prop pitch.
You also cannot judge prop performance if the motor is not running 100%.
The motor issues, if any must be tended to first. Then deal with the prop and reaching your proper RPM.

On most of my boats, I have several props at hand. I usually have one for heavy loads and one for light loads, usually a step up or down from what I normally run.

 

[freddyray21]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

a slipping prop hub will affect speed, but not rpm. The motor will still rev the boat just won't go anywhere. In general you loose about 2-400 rpms with change in pitch. for you to go from 5200 to 3900 wot it would require a drastic change in pitch. simple thing to do is put on your spare propl and see how it acts then. If you don't have a spare you need to buy one. Never leave home without it. Motors can be adjusted for wot in a test tank, but you have not said what kind of motor. In general most shops around here won't take the bigger ones off to test them in the tank. Most of the newer motors have fixed high speed jets anyway so no carb adjustment will be needed for high speed. Idle can be adjusted on muffs with a bit of tweaking maybe once on the water. Let me know the type of motor and I can give you more advice.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

to answer the first question, to pack up my tools, get in my truck and drive to the ramp, is a flat fee of $100.00, then the labor starts when i get there, so you best have your boat in the water, ready to go. it sounds like your motor needs a link n sinc.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

to answer the first question, to pack up my tools, get in my truck and drive to the ramp, is a flat fee of $100.00, then the labor starts when i get there, so you best have your boat in the water, ready to go. it sounds like your motor needs a link n sinc.

Agree, My truck,time and gas is worth something.
I keep all my tools on the truck but the first hour is a higher charge with a one hour minimum.Thats within 30 miles.If i have to drive an hour just to get to the boat then there is a charge for that on top of labor rate.
I am also considering a mileage charge too.So many people expect me to drive for over an hour free of charge...The truck does not run for free.

I had a customer the other day who i had been to once before and gave him a free estimate.He calls back and wants me to come back out.
I told him this time there will be a charge.
I get there and the carb is in pieces in the floor of the boat,a bunch of other parts taken apart...what a mess! Distributor out,plug wires in the floor and so on.

I asked why he took the carb apart.He said to clean it..
I asked if he had the rebuild kit with new gaskets....Nope..

Told him well you messed up and all i can do is get the firing order right and distributor back in. I made a new base gasket for the carb just to get it back together temporarily.
The boat fired up and ran but was running bad from the carb..

He had the nerve to say he wasn't paying a dime because it was not running perfect.
He had his 2 brothers out there to try and scare me....lol!
I had my monster pry bar in hand....
I said fine...i will wait for the cops and i locked his safety chain from his trailer to the truck...told him after the cops make a report i will see him in court..
He coughed up the money then..
He is now the first person on the "Blacklist"

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Being in the service industry this would be typical, and fair. Not only does it cost money to own and drive a truck to your location. We also have to pay the tech to drive to your location on top of that. Typically the first hour charge is 2-3x the regular hourly rate.

A good mechanic would be familiar with some problems, and a WOT issue is pretty common. So this one seems to be a two sided argument. It should have been fixed the first time, and there should be some form of warranty on that repair. The mechanic may be hesitant to come out for a water test as he may have been stiffed in the past more then once.


Ian

 

[coastalcruiser]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

did you change your water seperating fuel filter?

 

[rentprop1]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

thanks Bubba thats sound like a down to earth answer too..

guys, I did not want to go off topic with what type of engine and what prop .... as to the repairs there are other forum section for that....
its hard to find a quality mechanic in my area, just from the phone calls I made, one would think they all have been screwed and want to treat every future customer as the bad guy till they pay ( thanks for the personal story, not really related to my issue ).....
I totally respect YOUR time and don't have an issue with paying you for your time, thus why i asked the question about where would I expect to pay for your time from as to be fair to both of us.

I asked because I too as a customer have been ripped off, I paid for 5 hours of labor for an issue that should have been fixed in less than 1, by taking my boat and leaving it and not overseeing the repair....and no I am not gonna look over your shoulder the entire time.
since I live in the country, and this boat is a 22 foot pontoon located 30 min from the water, there is nothing except for ear muff to run the boat here, I questioned it because how can you get proper idle by running on muffs, I thought you could not get a proper idle unless I had back pressure underwater ???

I still have no idea where to go from here, since the carbs were just cleaned 2 boats ago, I would guess we need to start there, and then the prop....

So were are almost back to the original question, lets say I pay a mechanic to come to my home and look at the carbs, how quality of a job will I get running on the muffs ???....I know I will get my moneys worth, since I know when he started and stopped working on the engine

once the engine is running perfectly, I guess I can take boat to the water on my own and swap props and take it from there

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ??

I can't think of many problems which need to be water tested. The engine can be run in neutral on muffs or in a tank at WOT to see if any problems exist in engine performance or RPM limits. If the bost will rev up in 5K in neutral, it will do it while in gear as well aside from the prop pitch affecting it. I would simply put run the engine in neutral on muffs and slowly increase the throttle to note any stumbling or other issues. If it is smooth power all the way up the rpm's to 5K, then your engine is likely not the culprit. Next step is to get the correct prop size/pitch for your boat in a known prop, then try it on the water. If the prop keeps you at 3.9K rpms, it's the prop pitch. If the rpms go back up to 5K+, then you know the prop you got from the shop was the wrong one.

Also, is this on an I/O? Cause if it is, you shouldn't be at 5K+ rpms anyway, max WOT is usually in the low to mid-4K's.

 

[rentprop1]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ?? UPDATED

22 foot pontoon 60 Merc Bigfoot
14 x 11 was what was on there before I nicked a crab trap and took it to be reconditioned.....

the story of how we got here is just too long and complicated

read this in steps and maybe it will make sense :

1. boat ran fine, had just come from shop had carb cleaned, new impeller installed, wiring issue fixed, hit unmarked ( abandoned/lost ) crap trap on the way back to the dock, sent prop to prop shop....

2. next boat trip, manatee season ( idle speed ) all day could not notice change in WOT or prop at higher RPM...did not notice any issues

3. next boat trip, still manatee season ( idle speed for about 1/2 day ) went out past manatee area opened her up and only got 3900 RPM, sounded like it wanted more speed

like I said its hard to tell if something is wrong with the carbs or the prop, its far to the ramp, big boat, most mechanics turn their nose at storing it, due to space limits at their shop, thats why I wondered about water test and working on it at the dock or at my house ??

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Boat mechanics lets hear from your side of the fence ?? UPDATED

That sort of problem should be evident with a barrel run. However at neutral it would hit the rev limit on 2 cylinders without a hint of a problem. Check the outboard forum with the number of people that complain about not being able to hit planing speed but the motor runs perfect on muffs.

That said, again, a good mechanic would be able to locate this problem relatively quickly with a good description of the problem. It could be something as simple as a fouled plug, and something as complicated as an ignition or fueling problem. I know my ol' merc fifty would foul the top plug after extended hours at idle, caused by an out of sync carb I figured...but that's a different thread/forum.


Ian