Battery/Tilt Trim

[Justinde]

HI All

Took the boat out this week after fitting a tell tale. Its been a while since it ran, so did the timing/link sync etc, new fuel. I had a couple of questions and don't mean to make a 2 pronged attack!! by the way its a 1988/125

Question 1: The boat started just fine, cranked well, however, whilst underway, the tilt trim pumped but had no effect to the engine whilst underway- back at the wharf, engine goes up, engine goes down when the engine is not running- could my battery be the issue?? I would have thought if it had enough to cold crank the engine it would have more than enough for the Tilt Trim??

Question 2: After starting it takes about 30 seconds before water comes out the newly installed pee hole. I never run at WOT just cause I want to take care of her, but I get to between 4500 and 5000 RPM and the water is still peeing out the pee hole- and no heating issues, just wanted some feedback if this is too long too wait for water to come out of the pee hole.

Thanks and regards

;-)

 

[pnwboat]

Question 1: The boat started just fine, cranked well, however, whilst underway, the tilt trim pumped but had no effect to the engine whilst underway- back at the wharf, engine goes up, engine goes down when the engine is not running- could my battery be the issue?? I would have thought if it had enough to cold crank the engine it would have more than enough for the Tilt Trim?? While under way, you should be able to adjust the "Trim" of the motor. The Trim cylinder is larger in diameter, therefore it exerts more pressure to move the motor slightly up and down. The tilt cylinder does not exert as much pressure, so you cannot Tilt the motor while underway.

Question 2: After starting it takes about 30 seconds before water comes out the newly installed pee hole. I never run at WOT just cause I want to take care of her, but I get to between 4500 and 5000 RPM and the water is still peeing out the pee hole- and no heating issues, just wanted some feedback if this is too long too wait for water to come out of the pee hole.That sounds pretty much normal. Most importantly, the overheat alarm is not going off.

 

[Justinde]

Thank you pnw...... having read your reply I should elaborate. The Tilt/Trim did not operate at 4 knots ( walking pace) but whilst at walking pace ( just in gear) the motor did not want to lift at all...... I could trim it, but when ( you know the second speed whir) the second speed whir came in it didn't move at all..... down yes, just not up....... could this be caused by a weak battery?

 

[pnwboat]

If I'm understanding you correctly, it really doesn't sound like you have a weak battery, but I could be wrong. This I do know....once the Trim cylinder has reached full extension, the fluid is then pushed into the Tilt cylinder. It takes more pump pressure to move the Tilt cylinder, hence the change in the tone/whir of the electric motor as it's under more of a load.

You are correct in your assumption that if you have enough cranking current for the starter, which can draw hundreds of amps, you have plenty for the Tilt/Trim motor.

If your Trim/Tilt is not working properly, I would suspect a bad seal somewhere. Have you left the motor Tilted all or most of the way up overnight? Check to see if it has drifted down.

 

[Jiggz]

As PNW mentioned, the best diagnosis you can do right now is to tilt the motor all the way while at the driveway or parked and leave if overnight to see if it will leak down. If it does, then that will explain why it will not tilt while underway. However, if it does not leak down at all, it means you might be cruising faster than you have acknowledged. In this case, put the throttle to idle speed (approx 750 RPM) and try tilting again or even better go to stop. tilt and go forward again.

 

[Justinde]

Hi Guys

Went out again today. The PTT on our first trip did not want to lower or raise even at the lowest of speed.... Fast forward to today.

Got the boat to the ramp, PTT did not work at all, checked the 'trip switches' and then it worked fine. I didn't check it much underway. I bought a new battery anyways- just in case ( kids on boat etc).

The weather was better today but at WOT the overheat alarm came on. I rested it. We fished all day- I only took it to get the boat onto a plane so I did no more WOT after that. The waterpump is new ( but 2 years old) and the impellor was done the same time. The tell tale I installed was shooting water out even when it overheated, but looking at some of the videos posted on youtube and even here I don't think mine has the same 'pressure' as can be seen from these other engines..... should I replace the waterpump impeller again- this one even though its 2 has only 3 hours use on it??

When I go out next week I'll post results of the PTT issue.

Cheers.

 

[jerryjerry05]

No Title

Has the motor ever been rebuilt?
The exhaust chest ever been cleaned.
The impeller can work at slower speeds even when the vanes are set or bent.
But at high speed they aren't extending and aren't pushing water.

Some 125's have a pressure relief built into the spacer plate under the head.
There is a square headed plug on the stbd. bottom of the block.
Sometimes this passage gets blocked and the spring is blocked or seized in the open position.
It's supposed to open or close when the pressure is too much or not enough flow.
Being stuck can possibly cause the overheat at high speed.

The pic is a motor (99Yam) that had NEVER been flushed and ran in shallow water.
It suffered from an overheat problem.
The exhaust chest was just as bad.
The salt had crystalized and was eating the aluminum.
I had a REALLLY hard time sealing this.

Even a "new" impeller can go bad if it's set in position for a while.
Replace it and inspect the pump housing.
The 88 came with a pot metal housing that can take a lot of abuse.
But they do wear out. Pics when you change.

The T@T works in 2 phases.
The Trim is used for trimming as you move along.
The Tilt is for use when not moving.
If it's not trimming the piston is sealed with 3 o-rings.
The o-rings might have broken or squashed and the fluid just moves around it.
[h=2]F449278 Need 1[/h] F40278 Need 2

The seals/o-rings can still be had.

 

[Justinde]

Hi Jerry

The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner ( by a mechanic who charged $5500) to rebuild the powerhead. When I got the boat I replaced the exhaust plate ( it looked worse than the above pictures) did the link and sync and replaced the waterpump. The lowest cylinder ( number 4?) is 20 thou oversize, rest are standard. Compression is ( top to bottom) 145, 145, 142 and 138.

The PTT leaks down but it takes weeks, so I'm thinking the PTT valve assembly is OK. Last time I went out the little trip switch tripped, I pressed to reset and it was all good.....

I have ( for all of $30) bought a new impeller. Just waiting for customs to clear it from the US and A so I can install it.

I'll install it, adjust my idle speed and report back- last time I did the waterpump I ran literally for 3 hours at 3/4 and WOT with no alarms. I am guessing that the rubber has deteriorated and the pump works fine at low/mid speed- 2500 to 3500 RPM but higher it has issues.

Also, just another thing, it sort of feels like it ha a miss, but I cant be sure. I will clean the plugs when I do the waterpump, but being a 2 stroke is it inherently ' rough' or should it be a 'clean' burn?

Over to you ;-)

 

[Jiggz]

I recommend you focus with the PTT since this thread was started with a problem with the PTT. So the system leaks down but it takes weeks. I recommend you do the troubleshooting diagnosis in one of the sticky posts on top of the forum. And then post what you find out is the culprit of the problem.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The "miss" at idle or at running speed.
At idle could be the air screws need adjusting.
Some 2 strokes miss for no reason.
Mine do.
$5500 WOW!!!!

 

[Justinde]

Hi Jerry

The miss seems to be in gear at low speeds, once I get her onto a plane ( about 2500 rpm) there is no sign of the miss. In idle, on the driveway flushing her I get nothing but a regular idle- no miss- it just seems to be that ' doing 6 knots' it seems to feel like it goes ' bump'. If that makes sense? I'll do another link and sync, install a new water pump impeller- ( do I need to buy all the gaskets as well or just the impeller?) and report back.

Cheers

Oh, and yes, $5500 Australian Bucks to rebuild it. It was the main reason I bought it. It seems to be strong just I think I'm missing something???

 

[jerryjerry05]

The low speed miss is usually the air screws need adjusting.
No gaskets in the 88/125 pump. Post some pics of the housing.
A later model has the one with the stainless insert and gaskets.
Try running with the cover off and see if the miss is still there.

 

[Justinde]

Hi jerry

2 questions ( again), - are the air screws the mixture screws on the carbs and if they were out of adjustment and the engine running lean could this cause overheating at high speed??

 

[Justinde]

Also- she ran like a champion whilst flushing - no miss cover off.