Ball gear & driveshaft

[2 Shy]

:facepalm:
I have a 1969 GM V-6 3.7L/ 155 hp motor (# HUTM-69M) with an OMC electric shift stern drive. I cannot separate bell housing, intermediate housing group from V-6 motor or remove ball gear drive shaft. I have removed all bolts from bell, intermediate housing and 3-bolt flange holding ball gear drive shaft. Been using a three-finger slap-bar bearing puller on ball gear with no luck. I have never work on any stern drive before but thinking drive shaft is frozen at the flywheel. Tomorrow I plan on using heat on the shaft heating it to cherry red if that what it takes. So if I?m missing something please let me know before it?s to late as I got a 12lb sledgehammer resting against the wall too. They?re just enough room to slip my torch head up between the flywheel and intermediate housing group to heat shaft. Like I said never work on a stern drive before hoping I haven?t over look something simple that keeping from removing ball gear & drive shaft. The upper & lower section of stern drive came off ok leaving me looking at the intermediate housing and ball gear. I had to unbolt transom bracket to remove motor with intermediate housing still attach to remove from boat both are hanging from hoist, thanks if ya see where I went wrong LOL.

 

[superbenk]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Are you trying to remove the ball gear or the whole intermediate housing? If you just want to remove the ball gears themselves, there's a nut hidden under a cap in the center of the gear you need to remove. You pry the cap off and then use a 1-1/4" (or similar) socket to get the nut off. The gears should slide off with some elbow grease on a gear puller without damaging the gear case or any of the seals, etc.

Do you have a shop manual? It sounds like you're getting to the point where you're likely to damage something in a way that's going to be really expensive to repair.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

tracking back what I did and think I know remembering now there already enough play at the 3 bolt flange (bolts to intermediate housing) that behind ball gear holding shaft. If intermediate housing was free to slide would take up this play but does not move, It's torch time wish me luck.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Sorry, my second post got lost somewhere. to answer your question my plans are to rebuild both motor & sterndrive. I see nothing holding this drive shaft from sliding out except maybe rusted at flywheel. Using ball gear for something to pull on, I feel outer cup of taper bearing on drive shaft will prevent me from sliding off intermediate housing if I remove ball gear.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

It's cold outside so still researching my problems with drive shaft removal. Looking at parts diagram I see intermediate housing with outer cone cup (taper bearing) on drive shaft with cup shape facing motor that houses inter rollers so removing ball gear should allowed intermediate housing to slide off with outer cone cup attached. I'll hold off the torch for now remove ball gear and try to slide off intermediate housing.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

you have to remove the cap in the center of the ball gear as indicated by superbenk. under that cap is the nut that secures the gear to the shaft. the same goes for the upper gear box ball gear

to take the shaft out, you have to remove the intermediat housing from the back of the motor. fireing up a torch is a quick way to end up needing a new outrdrive.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Update I remove cap ( parts diagram call this plug expansion) to find there no such nut just drive shaft with cut splines the ball gear also with cut splines is press on shaft. Looking now at parts diagram show Ball Gear & drive shaft sold as a unit with 1 part number, I now recall reading some where the ball gear is press on with a hydraulic press. I do not believe a gear puller would tackle this job, I did take torch and cherry red the the ball gear and with a bearing puller the kind that slaps with weight would not budge ball gear. Looking at the parts diagram again shows 1 taper bearing in intermediate housing that the drive shaft run through. the outer cup cone of taper bearing point toward motor in which it should to retain shaft in place. If I could remove ball gear the intermediate housing and outer cup of taper bearing should just slide off but I don't think this is the case the way drive shaft and ball gear are connected. Under normal condition I show be able pull off intermediate housing from bell housing and motor once all outer bolts are remove. This is why thinking drive shaft is frozen or rusted to fly wheel where cut splines slip together "slip" not force, and it going to take heat to break it loses.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Update, first off I would like to say the engineer who design this should be shot. With my biggest bearing puller that still would fit ball gear and with cheater bar I tighten until couldn't turn anymore. Now at this point hitting the end of puller with big hammer usually will pop what ever free as it did many times in my trade. Nope not this time so I hit it with the torch, just has the ball gear started to glow I hear a "pop" I tighten some more plus heat than it broke free and I remove ball gear. Remove 3 hole bearing retainer with oil seal and now looking at taper bearing and "still" intermediate housing will not come off. Grab all my screw driver and pry around all bolt holes between intermediate housing & bell housing, move housing about 1/4 inch. Will need to come up with bigger wedges, or try making a puller using the 3 bolt holes used for bearing retainer. Still something is not right for sure looks like I'm stuck in 2 places. I know removing sterndrive first is the right way when pulling a marine engine but its not much different pulling engine from a car. when you unbolt the bell housing the drive shaft & bell housing will separate from flywheel on motor trust me on this. I pull this motor and sterndrive from a boat that was stringer and transom mounted even if the driveshaft fell out on its own LOL the intermediate housing still was bolted to bell housing & the transom which were both very hard bolts to reach. Bolts holding intermediate housing to bell housing were dam near impossible to reach, transom bolts were just cut off with metal cut of wheel. At this point with transom unbolted I just pull intermediate and bell housing out together with motor now that was much easier. I will separate Intermediate from bell tomorrow but the drive shaft is stuck in flywheel for sure. Most likely I will end up machining a new driveshaft fitted with later ball gears like the one with nuts LOL.

 

[superbenk]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Good luck. I feel like you're missing something & it shouldn't be this hard. I'm afraid of the damage you're doing or have already done to your drive.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

^+1. good luck. you pull the motor to get the intermediate off. that only takes about 30 minutes on a stringer.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Good luck. I feel like you're missing something & it shouldn't be this hard. I'm afraid of the damage you're doing or have already done to your drive.[/QUOTE

yes I feel like I'm missing something too that's why I'm writing to this forum, if there damage it was already done years ago. This motor & OMC is 45 years old been sitting and rusting the motor will not turn over frozen somewhere. I was hoping for some little trick or lock ring that needed to be remove. The heat applied to ball gear didn't even damage rubber oil seal in bearing retainer that sit just behind ball gear, yes I do plan on replacing oil seal LOL. Going to the shop will make a steel plate and try using the 3 threaded bolt hole that held bearing retainer to applied pressure on drive shaft which should pull housing off. I feel prying where intermediate & bell housing bolts together has reach it's limit. Restoring a 45 year old GM V-6 marine engine & sterndrive may call for different measure LOL, thanks for the good luck.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

^+1. good luck. you pull the motor to get the intermediate off. that only takes about 30 minutes on a stringer.

No Admiral I pull the motor out to rebuild it the intermediate came with it because it's stuck, The OMC is a 1969 which was change after 1971 remember the "nut" that was not there. read again what I have posted this is a stringer and transom mount (1969 HUTM-69M) the "TM" stands for transom mount. The intermediate housing is bolted to the "transom" very hard to reach bolts plus the bell housing that too is not easy to reach to unbolt.

 

[superbenk]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Do you have pictures? As far as I'm aware, there weren't any Stringers that were mounted to the transom (thus the name).

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

here is an exploded view of the upper gear case http://www.**********/parts/search/...R GEARCASE GROUP 80,120,155,210 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the crankshaft assembly http://www.**********/parts/search/OMC/SternDrive/1969/HUTM-69M/CRANKCASE GROUP 155 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the intermediate housing http://www.**********/parts/search/...TE HOUSING GROUP 80,120,155,210 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the transom mounting bracket http://www.**********/parts/search/...PTOR KIT PART NO.379814 120,155 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the mounting system http://www.**********/parts/search/...-69M/ENGINE MOUNT GROUP 120,155 HP/parts.html

in short. you have to pull the motor, remove the intermediate housing assembly, remove the retaining ring (item #50) prior to attempting to pull the shaft and ball gear.

put b o a t s . n e t (without spaces) in where the website automatically put the asterix **********

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Do you have pictures? As far as I'm aware, there weren't any Stringers that were mounted to the transom (thus the name).

Boats a 17 Glastron Tri Hull and yes it a transom mount as intermediate housing is bolted to a elaborate mounting system on transom. I cut the bolt heads off from outside back of boat transom as they were impossible to reach from inside. Pull motor with transom mount still connected to intermediate housing along with bell housing. The marine motor GM V-6 3.7L is rubber mounted (4 Bolts) to stringer.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

here is an exploded view of the upper gear case http://www.**********/parts/search/...R GEARCASE GROUP 80,120,155,210 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the crankshaft assembly http://www.**********/parts/search/OMC/SternDrive/1969/HUTM-69M/CRANKCASE GROUP 155 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the intermediate housing http://www.**********/parts/search/...TE HOUSING GROUP 80,120,155,210 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the transom mounting bracket http://www.**********/parts/search/...PTOR KIT PART NO.379814 120,155 HP/parts.html

here is an exploded view of the mounting system http://www.**********/parts/search/...-69M/ENGINE MOUNT GROUP 120,155 HP/parts.html

in short. you have to pull the motor, remove the intermediate housing assembly, remove the retaining ring (item #50) prior to attempting to pull the shaft and ball gear.

put b o a t s . n e t (without spaces) in where the website automatically put the asterix **********

Thanks for hanging with me Admiral, using Google Chrome and could not find links (said could not find page) I try all links with same result. I have a parts diagram not real good showing retaining ring, part# 50 did not know what its purpose was as I can not get to it. Intermediate housing will not slide off. Drive shaft has to be stuck in flywheel as it should just slide off with bell housing unbolted plus all bolts connecting Intermediate with bell housing have been remove. Now I'm at the point where I can do some real damage LOL:facepalm:

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Thanks for hanging with me Admiral, using Google Chrome and could not find links (said could not find page) I try all links with same result. I have a parts diagram not real good showing retaining ring, part# 50 did not know what its purpose was as I can not get to it. Intermediate housing will not slide off. Drive shaft has to be stuck in flywheel as it should just slide off with bell housing unbolted plus all bolts connecting Intermediate with bell housing have been remove. Now I'm at the point where I can do some real damage LOL:facepalm:

Ayuh,.... The input shaft of the drive slips into a flex-plate/ spring-plate type of coupler, that's bolted to the flywheel,...

The spline in the center can no doubt, rust solid,...

Donno if ya can get a wrench on those bolts somehow, or not,...

Ya might oughta reconsider yer plan of Restorin' a driveline that parts are darn near impossible to buy,...
That ole V6 Buick also falls into that category too,...

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Ayuh,.... The input shaft of the drive slips into a flex-plate/ spring-plate type of coupler, that's bolted to the flywheel,...

The spline in the center can no doubt, rust solid,...

Donno if ya can get a wrench on those bolts somehow, or not,...

Ya might oughta reconsider yer plan of Restorin' a driveline that parts are darn near impossible to buy,...
That ole V6 Buick also falls into that category too,...

:joyous:
They say you should never look a “gift horse” in the face LOL. But I think your right. I have no money in this part of my boat project learning fast that this sterndrive was a bad Idea when it was new! I found all the parts to restore GM V-6 sure glad I held off buying parts. 3 days ago I thought I’ll pull this setup knock out all the parts make sure block ok as 3 of the 4 freeze plug were laying on floor. I did not plan on having this much problems in fact my question to the forum was going to be about the electric shift. If coil burns out are you stuck in neutral up river with no paddle.

 

[2 Shy]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

Houston we have Separation, I try some more to break the drive shaft free from flywheel with no result. Took 20 seconds with cutting torch right behind the flywheel and all three pieces separated. With plenty of day left broke down the engine all look good except one head had two exhaust ports that need repair. Light rust in two cylinders from sitting with little pitting hoping hone job will do if not I'll have to bore block. I'm learning that marine engine live in a harsh environment ever thing else looks great. I love building engine and will be hard for me not to dress her up a little. It's a shame folks don't take care of their stuffs as this engine has little hours on it corrosion what did this motor in. I will have to check but most likely harden valve seat will have to be put in as this engine ran on leaded gas. Thanks all for your support no doubt I'll be checking in quite often during this boat build.:joyous:

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ball gear & driveshaft

I love building engine and will be hard for me not to dress her up a little.

Ayuh,.... Have you tried sourcing Parts for that ole Buick yet,..??

You've Really gotta figure out yer Ultimate Goal, 'n what it's gonna co$t ya to get there,....

One necessary Truth of boat ownership is that a Free boat is the Mo$t Expen$ive boat you can ever own,.....