Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

[Boomyal]

.....of other great societies throughout history, that were eventually overrun by their enemies? You know that bin Laden is rolling on the floor with glee over the recent self deprication of the US.<br />I thought the following to be an interesting lesson from history.<br /><br />

 

[roscoe]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

Interesting.<br />Where did you find this??<br /><br />Any volunteers?

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

Is this story fact or fiction? <br /><br />It sure sounds like hogwash to me

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

Toad, Snopes doesn't rule it out, just does not confirm it. Pershing may have been smarter than our idiots who took pictures for self gratification.

 

[Burbago]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

My uncle is from Manilla. He swears that the story is true. It's common knowledge in the Philippines. Sounds like someone wants to cover it up.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

I remember from my studies that a couple of hundred years ago there were a group of terrorists that fought a war by "not" standing in a straight line and firing musket balls at each other. They were defined as barbaric by the world. But, they won. The birth of the US.<br /><br />We are fighting a non traditional war with traditional methods and it is a roadmap to disaster. Shoot them, hang them, bomb them, but you have to defeat them. Who is hiding arms in mosques and schools? I think we need more dog collars and leashes... <br /><br />What has been in the news the past week or so are not war crimes they represent war. War sucks and if you are going to participate get used to the idea that being captured by the enemy isn't going to be an increase in your lifestyle as some would like it to be.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

I cannot agree.<br /><br />Half the world was against this war to begin with, and when we pursued it anyways, we were labeled as barbaric. Now, they have photographic proof of our barbaric nature.<br /><br />Even more important are the people in Iraq right now. We had an overwhelming 75% support from the people of Iraq, from those that have been tortured under the previous regime. The believe in us. They believe that the Americans are Just, Kind, and Merciful, that America will not stand for such atrocities as were committed under Saddam Hussein. Or should I say, the believed. Since the photos have surfaced, support for the US by the Iraqi people has dropped to less than 50%.<br /><br />This war was about humanity, and removing a vicious dictator who tortured people. Are we now no better?

 

[samagee]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

And what about the photographs of their actions? And what about them storing weapons in schools and mosques? How are the military suppose to get those weapon stashes destroyed? What about the kids who attend there? Isn't there any concerns from these gun control freaks that one might go off and shoot a kid?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

Wilkin250r<br /><br />Can you not see the difference between the two situations? Why no pictures of the over 1 million bodies found in mass graves. Torture chambers never made headlines, amputations as a form of punishment, how about the rape tapes that were found (some of them children under 12yrs old), the oil for food issue is now effectively off the front burner, but wouldn't that be barbaric, you know, profitting on the starvation of others? But I am sure that did not affect a political decision or position on the war by offending nations and the UN.<br /><br />For people to equate these photo's to the injustices that had taken place in this country prior, is digusting. Send a quarter of a million soilders into a war zone and this is the worst you could come up with. I find that embarrassment is not torture. Torture is torture, asked someone who was been in a prison camp. Try asking the Americans hung from a bridge and dragged through the streets to the cheers of these true barbarians. Where is the world outrage for that??? How about some Kudo's for America making sacrifices to free a people who are accustomed to being truely "tortured".<br /><br />I am no fan of this war, but if this is a display of American abuses then my hats off to them for their restraint. This (the Photo's) rates up there with not using the salad fork in a formal setting. Check out what torture is by visiting a local VA hospital plenty of men there who can fill in any misconceptions that one might have that this is torture.

 

[JoeW]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

I consider this a war, and the best tactics cannot be derived from popular opinion. Pointer has an excellent point. Some of the measures used by the American Militia during the revolution were considered abhorant, especially to elitist English gentry. The first thing we need to consider is how to win this war, the second thing we need to consider is how favorably histroy will reflect on that victory. I can gaurantee that if we are not victorious, history will not look on it favorably.<br /><br />That said, I am more concerned with the apparent pleasure our guards derived from such mistreatment than I am about the treatment itself. What, exactly, are we breading in Iraq?

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

Yes, but the actions of the former regime are not under scrutiny. They were barbaric, we all know that. WE, (the US) are NOT supposed to be barbaric. We are supposed to be saving people from the tortures and humiliations they have been subject to under the rule of a tyrant. Yet now photos surface that Iraqi prisoners of war are subject to torture and humilation while in our charge.<br /><br />As I said earlier, this war isn't about oil as some people would claim. This is a war about humanity. Half the world opposed it, saying that weapons of mass destruction and the torture chambers of Saddam were not their problems, yet we know better. As the greatest country on earth, we are obligated to protect humanity from tyrants and madmen. Yet here we are, violating that same humanity we are fighting to protect. The cliche of "sinking to their level" applies.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

I state here publically that if everyone agreed to lay down their arms and establish a freely elected government, and functional constitution, and stop hiding terrorists, I will submitt myself to the TORTURE of wearing a dog collar, naked, while being smiled at by a woman holding a leesh and smoking a cigarette. I already did the naked pyramid thing in a bar called Buffy's Lampoon, but they poured beer over me at the same time. I didn't know I was tortured in college. If I was humiliated I just don't remember. <br /><br />This whole thing is a red herring. People who are truely tortured know what this is and it is another way for liberals to attack America. Why exactly did they ask Rumsfield to resign. I didn't know he screened all photo's taken by all soilders in the gulf.<br /><br />To date, these people haven't proven to me that they were worth saving. Let's see some Iraqi hero's. Just one to start with. Someone willing to die for his countrymen. Someone who is selfless and not looking to benefit from a new free Iraq. Let's put an Iraqi face on this war as it is the people we are fighting for. People have to sacrifice for freedom, not complain it took two weeks to get the a/c back on.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

Personally, I have to praise Rumsfield.<br /><br />When the Clinton Spotted Dress scandal was on the downswing, many people were saying "If he just came clean and admitted it all, I'd be okay with that", and that was the President himself engaging in inappropriate behavior. <br /><br />Rumsfield didn't actually humiliate anybody, he didn't attach dog collars or take pictures, but he is taking full responsability. Here is a politician finally saying "I'll take the blame, because the buck stops with me". I gotta respect that!

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Are we (the USA) following the pattern......

The best point made to me out of all this. And the Korean War and especially Vietnam, is it takes Generals to win wars.<br />History has proven that once you let politicians call the shots, the mission will become obscure.