aq131 no power after head swap

axisg

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Last fall boat worked great but I was getting oil in the antifreeze ( head gasket ). So far this spring the head has been removed, decked, and a valvejob. Re-installed with new timing belt, plugs, wires, cap & rotor. Carb was sprayed down with some cleaner but no adjustment made and reinstalled with new base gaskets. Runs great in the bucket in the driveway. Timing is bang on at 10deg, and appx 850 rpms at warmed up idle.

Finally made the first splash of the year yesterday. Started fine, pulled away from the dock nice and smooth. Once I left the no-wake zone and gave it more throttle I was expecting to reap the fruits of my labour but it fell flat. Wont rev past 2000-2500 rpms or so.
Bumped the timing ahead, retarded it, replaced all the plugs, wires cap & rotor with the old ones in succession all with no effect. I even pulled the exhaust bellows off the manifold. The prop is the same one from last year.

Still spent a couple hours out fishing on the water between tinkering and it runs fine below 2000 rpms under load. In neutral it will rev with no issue. Attempting anything above 2000 rpms under load and you can hear the valves are starting to clatter.

Once home I put it back in the bucket and it will rev as high as I want with no ignition breakdown or delay. I broke out the timing light and its advancing as the rpms increase ( I didnt check total timing ) so the advance weights in the distributor are free.

Its points ignition but they would have to be really out to cause problems under load which would be apparent when running in the bucket ( not under load ). It runs so smooth I can set a glass of water on the breather at idle. I sprayed some carb cleaner and then some propane but cant detect a leak anywhere. If it were a car I would say the cat convertor is plugged.

Kinda stumped. I would but the pertronix ignition but I dont know if that will fix the problem.

I was having issues starting with the old timing belt so I purchased a new one. With the new one installed the engine started right away. Could it be a couple teeth off and still start and run ?? Maybe fuel related ?? I put $40.00 of 93 octane last weekend to help offset last years fuel. I pulled the fuel canister filter and although not spotless it looked OK to me.
 

Bondo

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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Ayuh,.... Sounds like ya shoulda been cleanin' the Insides of the Carb, insteada the outside of it,....
 

MikDee

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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Go over your firing order to make sure you don't have two crossed wires.
 

Alan Lloys

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Aug 16, 2012
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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

It sounds exactly like the issue I had over here.

I was 1 or 2 teeth off on the cam shaft and it gave all the same issues you are seeing.
I never noticed it when I was running it in the driveway apart from some pinging at higher RPM and that it would diesel (keep running) after I turned it off with the key.
When I got the belt on right it eliminated the pinging and dieseling.

I have not had it on the water yet to confirm the top end power but I am pretty certain this took care of the issue.
Make sure you are following the instructions and the marks on the belt to a "T".
I learned that I shouldn't go with what I thought I knew but actually read the manual for the correct version engine (A vs. B) :facepalm:
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

thx for the suggestions. Today I removed the distributor to install new points & condensor. I also took apart the distributor to check the springs and cleaned it all out. I gapped the points but dont have a dwell meter to confirm the dwell. The old points were worn but gapped correctly.

I also took the carb off, cleaned it up and checked the float, needle & seat then blew out the passages with carb cleaner and compressed air. It was pretty clean inside. Installed a new fuel filter / water seperator as well.

Dropped the distributor back in and it fired the first try. I re-set the timing at 10 deg and confirmed it advances the timing to 32 deg by appx 4100 rpm. Idles fine and revs at will with no hesitation.

Busy week but I hope to squeeze in an hour or so after supper tomorrow to put it in the water and see if its any better. If its working better I may look into the pertronix unit to replace the points. If not then... well I dunno what to do next !!!!

Alan, I have a new timing belt and have it all lined up per the marks on the belt. If its 1-2 teeth out do you advance or retard the timing ?? My heat exchanger makes it a PIA to get to the belt to make such changes
 
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bruceb58

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Mar 5, 2006
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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Use a dwell meter to set the dwell. This motor is very picky about the dwell.
 

Alan Lloys

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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Alan, I have a new timing belt and have it all lined up per the marks on the belt. If its 1-2 teeth out do you advance or retard the timing ?? My heat exchanger makes it a PIA to get to the belt to make such changes

Unfortunately the correct answer to this is that you move the timing belt to be correct. It is not something you can adjust for in the ignition timing. The valves have to be synced perfectly with the piston movement.
I can sympathize with the pain of removing the heat exchanger on these engines. I have a decent amount of room in front of the engine so I can reach in and I know that some boats have even less room to access the front.
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Put it back on the water last night ( drifting in 2 ft swells on Lake Ontario is not much fun LOL ) and still no power.
-the distributor has been cleaned, new points, gapped ( no dwell meter to check ).
-carb taken apart ( it was clean inside ), sprayed it down and blew out the passages anyways, and re-assembled.
-timing pulled back as far as 6 deg and advanced as far as 30 deg with various results from stalling to pinging but still no power.
-pulled the fuel line from the tank and into a jerry can ( no difference )

-pulled the heat exchanger and re-set the timing belt again ( its like the 6th time now ) with no difference.

Skys got dark and it was starting to rain so I called it a night.

Time to throw some more parts at this.
-pertronix coil and points replacement ordered ( should be here tomorrow )
-new fuel pump ( for giggles )
-6' of new fuel line

Pulling the heat exchanger and running the boat without it on the water makes such a mess.
 

axisg

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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

regarding moving the timing belt 1 tooth at a time ( alan ). I assume the oil pump/distributor pulley stays in its marked position and the crank stays in its marked position and you rotate the camshaft pully 1 tooth ( counter clockwise for advance and clockwise to retard ) at a time ??
 

PiratePast40

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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Be aware that the Pertronix kit generally doesn't fix a performance problem. It's an alternative to mechanical points and eliminates the change in dwell caused by the points eroding. I like these kind of magnetic pickups, but if your points, condenser, and coil are in good shape, then you probably have a different problem that this kit isn't going to fix.
 

MikDee

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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

I think Alan was onto something here, have you tried this?

Alan, Update: I think JerryJerry05 was correct.
3rd time must be a charm for the timing belt.
I had recently put a new timing belt on a 125A engine which has a mark on the cam cover used to line up the cam timing.
The 125B does not have the same shroud on the cover but I used something I thought was a mark. Well turns out it was not.

Once I completely removed the timing belt and re-installed it using the marks on the belt as guide it solved the dieseling.
I am optimistic that this will also solve the lack of power.
I will update next time I have time to get it on the water.[QUOTE/]
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

Be aware that the Pertronix kit generally doesn't fix a performance problem. It's an alternative to mechanical points and eliminates the change in dwell caused by the points eroding. I like these kind of magnetic pickups, but if your points, condenser, and coil are in good shape, then you probably have a different problem that this kit isn't going to fix.

understood. The cap, wires, plugs, condenser, points and rotor are all new. The coil is old. The weights in the mechanical advance move freely. However I cannot locate my Dwell Meter to confirm the dwell. I figure if I can rule the "dwell" out of the ignition equation while upgrading the coil and ignition then its one more thing I can take off the list of possible issues.
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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Re: aq131 no power after head swap

I think Alan was onto something here, have you tried this?

Alan, Update: I think JerryJerry05 was correct.
3rd time must be a charm for the timing belt.
I had recently put a new timing belt on a 125A engine which has a mark on the cam cover used to line up the cam timing.
The 125B does not have the same shroud on the cover but I used something I thought was a mark. Well turns out it was not.

Once I completely removed the timing belt and re-installed it using the marks on the belt as guide it solved the dieseling.
I am optimistic that this will also solve the lack of power.
I will update next time I have time to get it on the water.[QUOTE/]

Yes that was the issue I was having when I swapped the head and tried to re-use my orig timing belt. I bought a new belt with the marks and it fired up. To add to the confusion the 131a engine has no timing mark on the camshaft gear to relate to on the block. I have a diagram showing that camshaft gear should be at 12 o'clock and another showing it should be 11:00. At the 12:00 position the motor would start. At the 11:00 position it would not. The marks on the new timing belt have it lined up at 12:00.

vv link to the incorrect timing marks
http://www.threefattigers.com/Protocore/Volvo/TimingMarks.jpg
 
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axisg

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May 22, 2013
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so I finally got some time to install my parts tonight. New Fuel Pump and rubber lines plus Pertronix coil install. ( just for giggles I turned the key and it started fine ). Pulled the dist and installed the Pertronics electronic ignition. Had to add about 2' to the wires ( + to + and - to - on the coil, leaving the purple wire orig for the condenser un-used ). Dropped the distributor back in right where it was and it would only fire with the unit as far retarded as possible. However its close enough to get it to where it theoretically should run fine ( timing at 35 deg at 3500 rpm / full advance nets me appx 9 deg at idle of 980 rpm ) anything lower and it seems to stumble when coming back to idle from revving the motor.

It got dark so hopefully this weekend I will pull the distributor and move it one tooth so I have some adjustment to advance/retard the timing and then hopefully I can put it in the water for a test run.
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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tried to update a couple times but I was having issues with posting
 

axisg

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A year later but lets try this again. I stumbled across this post and felt I really should update if nothing else to help someone else further down the line.
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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weird forum problems. When I post it states "working" but nothing seems to post until hours later.
Anyways. When I put it all back together after the pertronix coil and distributor upgrade it ran great. Timing was pulled too far ahead and I had to set it back 1 gear on the distributor as there was not enough adjustment. However I think there is a possibility that I may have had 2&3 spark plug wires crossed. I have found that it will run with the wires crossed until you introduce a load to the motor :/ It now seems to make more power and runs smoother when up on plane. Whether that's related to the pertronix or the head overhaul I think its a combination of both.

Still been chasing the Oil In the antifreeze issue though. I chased it all last summer and after every 2nd or 3rd trip there would be some oil at the top of the heat exchanger tank. I figured it was just residual so I flushed the cooling system with some laundry soap and water a couple times and it still kept coming back. Just before I put the boat away for the winter I decided to change the water pump. I noticed during the head install that the rubber washer between the pump and the head was very very soft so I replaced that rubber washer between the two.
 

axisg

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May 22, 2013
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OK so I think I got the "oil in the antifreeze" sorted out. I spoke with a friend of a friend and he's quite knowledgeable about the Volvo 2.3 engines. He said that if the front camseal leaks that the engine oil will trickle down the head, soften the waterpump to headgasket seal and suck the leaked oil into the engine under load.

So last week I looked at my cam seal and there is trace oil under the seal and its a straight shot right to the water pump seal;. I have a new seal, just need to pull the whole darn thing apart one more time to see if that's the problem.

Also over the winter I picked up a whole parts motor for $300.00. Complete from Air Filter to Oilpan so now I have my own parts depot to pull from
 
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