Aprox. Installation time

bronxlatetour

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
77
I have realized that it is too complicated for me to install and wire up an elctric fuel pump on my boat. If anybody with the knowledge could give me an aproximate time it should take so I know if I'm getting raked over the coals or not by a boat shop I would appreciate it. It is a Mercruiser conversion kit. My boat is a 1990 Sea ray 250DA with the 7.4 Bravo. Thanks in advance.
 

bamadave

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
391
Re: Aprox. Installation time

If you brought it to my shop, Probably about week and a half.
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: Aprox. Installation time

I think he is looking for someone who can post the "shop time" on the work...that said a week and a half turnaround is pretty good. You couldn't even get an oil change in Charleston in that short of time. I figured all you guys would be getting hammered by the "this broke on the 4th of July" crowd...
 

bjcsc

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Jun 1, 2006
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Re: Aprox. Installation time

Shop time = book time = hours of labor...
 

tommays

Admiral
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Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Aprox. Installation time

It may be a KIT but its not a bolt on and go thing

There are a bunch of wires needed that are not there that have to be spliced in and who Knows how bad the motor acess is


Tommays
 

bamadave

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
391
Re: Aprox. Installation time

I knew what he meant. I would not quote because in fairness to the mechanic that ends up working on it. If we said 3 hours and it took 4, you're going to tell the mech it could have been done in 3. Like Tom said, to mant varibles. Access to engine, butchered wiring already, etc. Develope a working repore with your shop and mechanic and who knows, they may not pad the tab.
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 1, 2006
Messages
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Re: Aprox. Installation time

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with your position. Book time is exactly that. It's not subjective. Dealers, and I would assume indys, have set labor hours for specific repairs. Example: The VP dealer here charges 3.5 hrs labor to rebuild a carb.. That number is in some Volvo Penta shop book that someone here who works for VP has access to. How long it actually takes is not relevant. The customer pays the book time in labor as they are averages on how long the specific repair takes, set by VP. With extenuating circumstances, your example butchered wiring for instance, the customer should expect to pay more, but in most cases the book time is what is paid (and is what the quotes are based on). I don't think it would violate any secret marine tech handshake codes to let bronxlatetour know what it is, nor do I think he would hold you accountable should such a circumstance affect his bill. Certainly he has had a boat long enough to know to add 25% to whatever they tell him anyway ;). While you guys are good and ethical techs, there are a bunch of hacks (esp. here in Charleston) who are not. Taking a position of not wanting to endanger someone else's meal ticket vs. giving it to a forum member straight sucks...

Remember some of us do not have people like you and the others here to take our boats to...
 

Reel Poor

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,522
Re: Aprox. Installation time

I have only seen Flat Rate Manuals for outboards.

Some I/O jobs (typically on the drives, but there are variables) can be done for a flat fee, but as far as looking up the time to do any job on any individual boat, I'm not aware of a labor guide. Most jobs are billed by the hour.
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: Aprox. Installation time

Haut said:
Ouch!!!!!:%

?? Not meant to be offensive. I wish I had someone like bamadave to take my boat to! I have resolved to doing it all myself as I have been repeatedly screwed over by the VP service dealers here...guess that has left me a little sore...
 

bamadave

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
391
Re: Aprox. Installation time

lol, book time is usally for warranty purposes. I have never seen a tixed rate guide for boats. A 3.0 merc in a pontoon and a 3.0 in a Maxum bowrider are 2 different animals. Too many different boats with a different set of hassles to go with it.
O.k., the pump could probably be installed in a couple of hours if you had everything you needed within 5 feet of the boat and there are no distractions and if the mechanic is familiar with the installation. But that's in a perfect world.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Aprox. Installation time

gotta disagree with ya seaman.
just replaced the long block on a 2004 33 four winns.
VP 5.7 MPI.
volvo allows 14.5 hours to remove the motor,sxitch all acessories and reinstall.
while its possible on some boats it aint happening on this one, actual time was 22 hours.
customer gets stuck with the rest.
volvo does not pay for time to remove rear decking,rear seating and the genset so I could access the stuff.
same as the fuel pump on a 2000 mercruiser MPI in a 2000 28 albermarle with twins as well.
I think merc paid 3 hours and the job took 9.
customer ate the other 6.
I had to remove the engine for access
even a midget could not access the pump on the stbd engine.
look very close at the warrenty and most note it does not cover towing,haulouts or equipment accesability.
I think when I retire I will design boats. the current crop of amature designers have no idea on how to really make it inaccesable.
 

bjcsc

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Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: Aprox. Installation time

rodbolt: Not sure we're not in agreement. Your customers should have expected to pay more given the circumstances (although I'm sure they weren't exactly happy!) Try this: How many hours would Merc or Volvo allow to replace an electric fuel pump on a 7.4L? If you can answer that, where did you get the info?
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Aprox. Installation time

your installing a kit, that kit does not take into account hull acess and the hours for the flat rate are based on the engine on a stand and all plumbing and electrical parts on the bench.
on the late MPI mercs the high pressure fuel pump is located on the oil pan rail behind the port front engine mount. some hulls require engine/drive removal for access.
Volvo now thoughtfully combines the high/low and VST in one package. however other than the high pressure pump there are no service items in the VST making a 750 dollar replacement nessasary if anything else fails. luckly its mostly accesable in most hull combinations.
what is the part number of the kit your looking at and how many things need to be moved,replumbed and reinstalled?
your asking a question similar to how high is up. over the past 30 years I can usually beat the flat rate on anygiven project once the engine is on the stand. took me 6.5 hours to strip the old(2004) 5.7 MPI and reasssemble the new long block and fire it up on the shop for to look for leaks.
the rest of the time was spent on access and reinstalling hull components.
and always add time for saltwater repairs.
quite a few kits are not application specific and are universal.
universal usually means its universally gaurenteed to fit nothing correctly without modifying something.
I get it with outboards all the time, how long will it take. my answer is how many bolts will break or require oxy/acetelyne for removal, if you can answer the latter I can answer the former.
as far as your question, if it was a factory electric pump used on a production model run there will be a warrenty flat rate.
I think on the above albermarle they allowed about 3 hours. ever try to get the engine out of a 28ft albermarle ?
it aint fun nor easy but it is what it is.
just to get the muffler off requires riser removal. if its freshwater cooled that means draining the coolant system,removing the risers hopeing I dont have to cut the 4" hose, removing the muffler, again fighting an 8"hose.cleaning the manifold and riser for reassembly. I just blew an hour of the 3 hours alloted and have not undone the jackshaft front and rear mounts,fuel,electrical or seawater systems. takes 2 people 30 min to remove the engine hatch by now I am 4 hours into fuel pump replacement and the engine is swinging from a chain and I am just getting ready to tackle the pump, takes another 4-5 hours to reinstall the engine,check alignment and such.
so no I am not out to rip anyone off, warrenty is just that. however warrenty does not cover acessability.
however it is my contention that if the parent company owns both the powerplant manufacture and the hull manufacture the warrenty should cover access.
it does not though.
 

bamadave

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
391
Re: Aprox. Installation time

All this because I was being a smarta$$ about the time. lol But, the reason I chose the boat I bought, Chaparral Sunesta 232 deck boat. I can raisethe engine compartment, sit down on the floor, my feet in the bilge, the engine staring right at me. One of the most accessable boats that has ever been designed. Guaranteed if the boat owners had to work on the boats, they would take ALL this into consideration, but nnnoooooooo! LOL
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Aprox. Installation time

:devil: To play the devil's advocate "Book times are for trained tech's, and being such, the shop is paid a indrustry std (hourly rate) for employing such tech's

Doing a modification is not really a factory repair job, so does the shop or is the shop allowed the same rate of labor that there tech's were trained for (investment gent's)?

Remeber basically the tech is going into uncharted territory here and i for one believe that it is not fair to charge for inexperience, but if no one else can do the job that is what you are left with.

Having grown up in a repair garage i can say most good mech can make a monkey out of the book and there are those instance's where the book can make a monkey out of any mech or garage.

In the end you should be aware that you are customizing and that is expensive, and if you find a really qualifed individual or garage they will tell you right up front what you are asking for and explain to you why the cost is so high and from there it's up to you as a consumer to make a choice...........8)
 
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