Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

[swire]

I finished a 2 year complete rebuild of my boat this spring, http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=461659. I put in a Johnson Pumps bilge pump, model 2140, which was wired in manually and connected to a float switch. I know the bilge pump worked for the 3 days I had the boat out this year. Day 9 the impellor fell off the drive shaft. Unaware of this and the fact that I had been accumulating water all day long in my bilge, I beached the bow of the boat for the evening. My date and I went to sleep on the back deck and were woken up at 4am, finding the lake inside the boat.

This was the 9th day on the lake this year. After recoving my boat I checked the pump and found the impellor just laying in the bottom of the bracket. There is nothing in the design of this pump that would keep the impellor in place. The Rule pumps I bought to replace it with have the impellor enclosed. Even my aquarium pump has a plastic bracket that holds the impellor and drive shaft in place. This is not the case with this Johnson Pumps though. I've been advised to find other people who have had problems with this brand of pump or would be qualified to speak on this design flaw.

I've also learned that my insurance probably won't cover the $1,800 recovery and tow bill, nor any of the damage done to the boat. It sounds like most policies are like this, a non-accident related sinking is usually considered a maintenance issue and excluded.

The pump looks similar to this.

Anyone that has had a problem with that style pump please get in touch with me.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

nice looking boat, sorry about that!


Bigger question is why did you need the bilge pump? Did it storm and overwhelm the pump?

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I'm still looking into the cause of what happened. As far as I can tell there are no leaks below the water line. I've had the boat out and tested it and did not notice any water getting in. I did find out that my splash well drain isn't sealed tight and would let water get inside the boat as it drained.

I do have a theory about what happened but it is really just a guess. With the bilge pump not pumping out any water I accumulated water inside the boat all day while running around and tubing. Anyone with a bass style boat knows that when slow or stop the wake crashes over the back of the boat and fills the splash well. That night I beached the bow of the boat on a fairly steep bank. This did 2 things. It pitched the stern lower and it pushed all the water to the back which would cause the stern to sit even lower in the water. Then when I added a mattress, pillows, blankets, and the weight of 2 people to the back deck it pushed it lower. The Conservation Officer that I spoke with said the wind had picked up in the middle of the night. So a low sitting stern with some mild waves and it let water trickle in. Even a tiny bilge pump could have handled that but without a working bilge it just sank lower and lower until the transom was below the water line.

That is the best thoery that I can come up with but I still have trouble believing it. The normal water line is at least 6 inches below the splashwell drain. I will do some more testing to see if any can find any other type of leak. I really need to go back to that lake and beach the boat like that again to see how much lowers the stern.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

talk about a rude awakening. But I'm surprised you didn't hear the pump running even without the impeller, right below you.

I think you had a combination of things--a high bow = low stern plus 2 adults on the stern, stern into the waves, wouldn't take much to swamp over the transom. That's why it's always preferable to tie up bow to the wind. The typical builge pump wouldn't have saved you anyway; when you get waves over the stern, you go down. Happens a lot (around here the falling tide makes a situation like yours even worse).

Odd that your anchor light is still on--wasn't your battery under? At least your motor isn't.

I had a impeller shaft on a bilge pump break once, so it sounded like it was working but it wasn't.

The bilge pump is the second line of defense; more important is keeping water out in the first place (like don't let your stern wake flood your splashwell). The float switch is the third line--you check the bilge visually/manually if you suspect you might have water in the boat--as you know you did from the leaking splash well. The float switch backs you up, not the other way around.

Most marine insurance policies will pay about $500 toward towing--see if yours will. Also sinking from wave action may be covered, too.

At least with the motor out of the water, and in fresh water, you shouldn't have any damage to speak of, but check your gasoline, and oil if you have a seperate oil tank.

With an incident like this and its many factors you are becoming an experienced boater.

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I had the boat tucked around a corner and back in a cover. There really shouldn't have been much wave action. But I was on a huge lake which had a 150 boat poker run that weekend. Boat traffic or wind could have created waves. There weren't any waves crashing over the stern. That is where we were sleeping and that would have been noticable. I also fished for a good 30 minutes after beaching the boat and didn't notice the stern being close to the water, of course I wasn't really checking for that either. I've had this boat 7 years and beached the boat like that many times before, although this bank was a little steeper.

As for why I didn't hear the bilge pump, I have a 17 gallon bait tank below deck with an aerator that was running. I just figured the humming was from that. I'm redesigning the bilge system and will add an LED light to the helm that activates along with the float switch. This will give me a visual indicator instead of just an audible one. Plus I'm guessing the bilge pump was completely submerged at that point and with no impellor connected to the drive shaft the pump would not make much noise.

I wasn't aware of the leaking splash well until after the fact. That is the only place I noticed water dripping in while I was testing the boat out after the recovery effort. My boat had been running fine previously, little if any water would be in it at the end of the day. I didn't hit anything. So I had no reason to suspect that I would have much if any water in the boat.

The batteries worked the entire time while submerged. The connections corroded but the lights and radio worked the entire time. I have 4 batteries in the boat, one for starting, one for the stereo amp and accessories, and 2 for trolling connected for 24 volts. All the batteries seem fine. The starter solenoid for the motor was under water and the connections corroded, the wiring harness connections also corroded a bit, and the bottom cylinder had a little bit of water in it. Other than that the motor is fine. I pulled the plugs and cranked it over just to be safe and a small amount of water came out of the bottom one. I used to the priming bulb and manually pumped out the fuel tank. The first 7 gallons that came out was water. The situation could have been a lot worse. The floation foam that I added during the rebuild worked well.

I have definitely learned a lot of lessons from this. It makes me wonder how I got by all those other years of owning this boat.

 

[Don S]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

What I have found with any pump the impeller came off of, is the bilge pump motor was bad. The motor overheats, the shaft gets hot and melts the impeller and it falls off.
I've seen this happen on about every type pump. Some times it happens because something like a wire tie, fish hook, or whatever else can fall into the bilge. Prevents the impeller from turning. Then the motor gets hot, the impeller falls off, and .............. well, it don't pump.

You need to make sure your bilge is clean, and check the pump now and then to make sure it works. Especially if you are going to leave your boat in the water.

I have always had 2 pumps and 2 float switches in every boat I have owned. Just for that reason.

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I'm redesigning the bilge system and will add an LED light to the helm that activates along with the float switch. This will give me a visual indicator instead of just an audible one.

An LED light wouldn't have saved you in this situation, since you were sleeping. A high water level alarm, on its own float switch, set higher then the bilge pump float switch, might have though.

As Don S stated, 2 pumps and 2 switches, completely independent of one another, is the way to go. It may seem overkill on a small boat like yours, but the redundancy such a set up offers outweighs the relatively small initial cost... Especially for any boat you plan on sleeping on.

 

[sccatfish]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

There's not much clearance in the pump when assembled (or else it wouldn't pump efficiently) so the impeller was still around the shaft until you took it apart. It sounds like the impeller stripped when trash was sucked into the pump, and it ran for so long that it was loose enough to just fall off. There's no way it could fall completely off when assembled, the bottom of the pump holds it up. This is really no different than any other pump. An impeller can only be held in place at the shaft, or else it would rub the fins. Even the Rule pump doesn't have this until it's assembled. If it was caused by sucking up trash it could have happened to any pump. The good thing about Johnson pumps is that you can take them apart and put in a new motor or impeller relatively easy. I had one that the impeller stripped on it and I just took the impeller off of my spare motor (which is why I went with Johnson pumps - so I could have a spare motor like that that was easy to change) and put it on there and I haven't had any problems since. Can't do that with a Rule. It was still under warranty and Johnson sent me a new motor cartridge.

You can change the entire Rule pump fairly easily, but those little tabs that hold it down can break easily. Before I changed to Johnson I actually had to replace the bottom part of the rule pump because of this, and that was a big factor in choosing to change.

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I was able to put the impeller back on and the pump worked fine. There was nothing inside the bilge pump that would have prevented it from turning. If the pump was old or the bilge was dirty I could understand it failing. The bilge was pretty clean and it was only the 9th day the pump was used.

I'm probably going over board now but I'll have 3 pumps when I'm done. A pair of pumps in the bilge and a high volume pump sitting above the bilge.

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

The LED light would have helped, as all day and all night it would have been on given the water in the bilge. Definately after beaching the boat for the evening the light would have been on and been a good indicator that something was wrong. My new system will have the 2 float switches, the LED light connected to the first and an alarm connected to the second.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I would be checking your aerator system for leaks. Your problem isn't the bilge pump, it's the fact that a sh!t ton of water got into your boat. If it wasn't wave action over the stern, it was caused by water getting in somewhere else. Bilge plug or aerator plumbing would be about the only two options in that boat short of a hole in the hull itself.

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

The evening before it sank here is what the boat looked like with my outside LEDs on. After it sank they actually turned out to be a little bit comforting as we sat on the cold rocky bank at 4am.

Some other pictures.

 

[JEBar]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I have always had 2 pumps and 2 float switches in every boat I have owned. Just for that reason.

impeccable logic ... having never had a problem with a bilge pump, I've never considered having 2 .... this is a mod that will be made to our boat before it hits the water next spring

Jim

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

Your theory does not sound plausable to me but you never know - Seems like you would have noticed the stearn being closer than normal to the water if that was the case - I am not sure where it could get in but I am sure you will find it.


LK

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

I would be checking your aerator system for leaks. Your problem isn't the bilge pump, it's the fact that a sh!t ton of water got into your boat. If it wasn't wave action over the stern, it was caused by water getting in somewhere else. Bilge plug or aerator plumbing would be about the only two options in that boat short of a hole in the hull itself.

The plug was in, all the thru hull fittings are tight, and the aerator system is a closed system once the fill pump is turned off. In fact after the boat was raised and the water pumped out, I opened the bait tank and it was only 1/2 full, which is the level that I had filled it to. So the bait tank is not the cause. At first I thought maybe I had left the fill pump on and drain got clogged but the pump was off and the 1/2 full tank confirms I didn't run it over. I also used the heavy duty reinforced hose and have brand new clamps on every connection.

If there is a hole in the hull then I'll just give up on boating. I rebuilt the boat like a tank and haven't hit anything at all. Comparing pictures from earlier that night with pictures from another trip, the stern was sitting about 3 inches lower in the water around 8pm while beached on a shallow bank. We did more running around after dark. Once I get the new pumps in place and seal the splashwell I will test the boat thoughly and see if there are any leaks. I will be shocked if I find one.

 

[Don S]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

Remove every hatch and cover to any opening in the boat. Then put it back in the water on a VERY quiet day, and start listening and looking.
You would be surprised at what you can hear when things are really quiet. One that will sink your boat overnight is not going to be that hard to find.

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

Your theory does not sound plausable to me but you never know

I agree with you but that is the only thing that I've been able to come up with. As a test I left my boat strapped down the trailer and backed it into a creek until the water level was right below the splashwell drain. The boat stayed dry. Not a leak anywhere. When I splashed water into the splashwell drain a lot more than I expected got into the boat. The transom was rebuilt thicker than the original and I actually had to grind it down a bit to get the cap to fit back over it. I was surprised any water was getting with that tight of a fit.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

Where is the outlet for your bilge pump? On the side? Out the the transom? ... How high above the waterline is the outlet?? Where was the bilge pump outlet when you beached the boat on the steep bank... Underwater? O.K. so now you know why it sunk. The cure is to install a sea **** and close it when you're beached like that. On the bright side, you're not the first one this happened to. Good thing the cure is so simple and cheap.

 

[Don S]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

If your bilge pump outlet is not above the water line, and the pump comes on for any reason, when it shuts off, it will siphon the water right back into the boat.
Had a customer that put a PVC pipe on his bilge pump outlet that was 2 feet above the water line. The PVC pipe was outside the boat and he put it there so he didn't have to hear the water come out of the outlet. He sank his boat too. Removed the PVC pipe and all was right with the world.

 

[swire]

Re: Anyone have any problems with Johnson Pumps bilge pumps? Sunk my boat.

The bilge pump outlet is on the back of the boat and sits higher than the splashwell. If water is getting into the bilge outlet then the splashwell is already an inch under water and the boat would be flooded.

I just got home and measured. There is a water line across the transom 8" below the splashwell. This is the normal water line. There is a secondary water line 5 1/2 inches below the splashwell. That matches how it was sitting in the 8pm picture, about 3 inches low. Unless there is a leak that I haven't found yet, that is all due to the weight of the water splashing in while running and water getting in through the splashwell when stopping.