Am I doing something wrong!

[mcvette]

Here is the problem. I have a 2009 tandem wheel aluminum "Road king Trailer" to tow a 1930 SS Chaparral bowrider. Tow vehicle is a 1999 Tahoe. It has a 5prong plug which connects to a 4 prong connector. This is what was installed when I bought the trailer. Was told that this was for the trailer brakes to connect to the back up lights.
I just picked the boat up from storage today and when I went to back up it did not want to go. Used it the same way last year with no problems. I was finally able to back up but it seems to come and go. Am I doing something wrong? Any thoughts or ideas would ne appreciated.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

If it worked last year you have an electrical problem with the reverse "lockout" for the trailer brakes (I assume the trailer has surge brakes)Inspect and clean up all your connections. 10-1 it's corrosion.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

Sounds like you don't have the back up lockout even connected if you have a 4 prong socket on your car. Is that correct? If so, then your surge brakes are operating while you are backing up. You backing up a hill possibly?

 

[marcortez]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

At times, the brakes will not always "actuate" when your backing up....if it's done slowly and without much force, the "surge" connection will not "surge" and actuate the brakes.

It takes force to "push in" the actuator....which then squeezes the brake fluid down the lines and makes the brakes "work"

From a 7 way round connector socket, use a 7 way plug that terminates to a flat 5 way that then connects into the 5 way coming from the trailer.

It is this 5th pin, on a 5 way, that will send power to the solenoid, that "locks" out the brakes, and allows you to back up.
Verify that this "5th" pin has juice if it "worked before"

Upon backing up, if you gun it or "goose" it, to get over a curb or incline, that solenoid will not do it's job, as the force "pushing" in on the hitch will be too great a force to overcome.

This is what you need.
http://www.heartlandlock.com/index....id=132&zenid=53cf4b4f3faaa66330b55ebaa9ae6174

Along with this for the back of your tow vehicle:
http://www.heartlandlock.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=136

On edit: might wanna check if the brakes are not frozen up with corrosion after a period in storage first.
No manner of 5 ways, 7 ways or surge, is gonna help if the brakes are in fact, frozen up

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

From a 7 way round connector socket, use a 7 way plug that terminates to a flat 5 way that then connects into the 5 way coming from the trailer.

That adapter won't help him at all because the 5th wire brought out is the brake control wire, not the back up light wire. Most of these adapters bring out the center pole of the connector to the 5th pin on the 5 pin connector. This is the blue wire which is brakes. Would have to rewire the vehicle to make this work. Better to make your own adapter with a a 7 pin plug and a 5 pin connector.

As far as a backup solenoid not working if you "goose" the throttle, not sure what you are talking about since the backup solenoid is really just a valve that prevents brake fluid from leaving the master cyclinder.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

To the OP,

You have disk or drum brakes on this trailer?

 

[cribber]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

And to add are your brakes electric or hydraulic? A five pin plug on the trailer usually means electric controls the fifth wire to engage the reverse lockout.

This link has some very good info on trailer wiring and also a decent site for parts.

http://www.etrailer.com/faq-wiring.aspx

 

[marcortez]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

That adapter won't help him at all because the 5th wire brought out is the brake control wire, not the back up light wire. Most of these adapters bring out the center pole of the connector to the 5th pin on the 5 pin connector. This is the blue wire which is brakes. Would have to rewire the vehicle to make this work. Better to make your own adapter with a a 7 pin plug and a 5 pin connector.

As far as a backup solenoid not working if you "goose" the throttle, not sure what you are talking about since the backup solenoid is really just a valve that prevents brake fluid from leaving the master cyclinder.

Relaying an experience that I had.....may or may not apply as the boat is MUCH heavier than the OP's.

To get into my garage, I have to back over a small curb, and then up an incline to get on the flat garage floor.
Doing this, it requires I "goose it" a bit to get the tires over this curb.

The first time I did that, the brakes locked up and I was stuck. Even though the proper wiring was in place with a 7 way to a 5 way....as installed by the trailer manufactuer and confirmed with the boat manufacturer.

It's my contention, and I could be off base, that this "goosing it" over the curb, with untolds amount of force and a heavy weight, prevented this solenoid from doing it's job.

It was always my understanding that this "5th" pin only provided "juice" to the electrically actuated solenoid valve on a surge system vs an electric braking system.
No 5th pin to another 5th pin....no juice to the valve.

For clarity matters, I believe you may be speaking of "electrically" actuated brakes vs. surge operated brakes, that do not use juice to actuate the brakes.

At one time, I had a travel trailer that was equipped with electric brakes and had a controller inside the cab of the tow vehicle. There was no "surge" involved and completely electric.....where your suggestion about a "brake" wire may come into play.

Good thread, as I am sure lots of guys have experienced this in the past and have wondered what the heck is going on.

 

[mcvette]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

If I am correct the brakes are electric and not the surge type. I went out and tried, best I could, to clean the receptor on the Tahoe. Ran a wire brush round it best I could and sprayed a little WD40.
Moved forward in the driveway and backed up with no problem. Tried this again and worked again. Maybe that fixed it. The connector on the trailler was clean. I keep the boat in a building so it had little or no chance of getting dirty. The recetor on the Tahoe looked dirty and probably was due to the winter weather.
I'll try it tomorrow and let you know how it does. Suppose to be 87 degrees so off to the lake.
Keep your fingers crossed it solved the problem. Thanks to everyone for the comments. This place is definatley the place to get answers.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

Well...I really doubt you have electric brakes since your trailer is a 2009 and probably no one has changed the way it was when it was first bought.

You have one of these at the front of your trailer?

 

[mcvette]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

Yes bruceb58. That is what i have except I think there is a cover over the back where it looks like a strap and cylinder.
Based on that....what do I have. I guess I'm pretty stupid for not knowing but I thought they were electric since they worked off the back up lights.
Thanks again.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

You have surge brakes.

Now...do you have disk or drum?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

If you have electric brakes you don't have or need a reverse lockout device and cleaning the connector had nothing to do with the being able to back up. You either have a brake problem or you have surge brakes. Check the back of the trailer wheels. If you see electrical wires rather than a brake line, the brakes are electric.

 

[mcvette]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

Okay. To answer the question, They are disc brakes on one axle.

Went to the lake today. Pulled the boat 100 miles. Backed in at the ramp, no problem. Spent a wonderful day on the lake. Backed in at the ramp to load the boat, no problem. Drove home, went to back the boat in the building and it would not go. Tried pulling forward several times, still would not back up. Unpluged the lights several times, still would not go.

I am baffled. Not sure if it is the Tahoe wiring or what. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

If you don't have the 5th terminal on your trailer wired up to your backup lights, your reverse solenoid/valve is not going to engage. That is why you can't back up.

 

[wildspeed]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

you need 5 on 5.....
the fifth wire activate the solenoid.

 

[burp]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

Okay. To answer the question, They are disc brakes on one axle.

Went to the lake today. Pulled the boat 100 miles. Backed in at the ramp, no problem. Spent a wonderful day on the lake. Backed in at the ramp to load the boat, no problem. Drove home, went to back the boat in the building and it would not go. Tried pulling forward several times, still would not back up. Unpluged the lights several times, still would not go.

I am baffled. Not sure if it is the Tahoe wiring or what. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

Sounds like the trailer brakes are working as intended..........At the ramp, you are backing downhill and thus the surge brakes are not actuating. Your Tahoe has a 4 pin connector and the trailer has the 5th pin. Backing downhill the brakes are not being actuated and the reverse lockout (5th wire, blue in color) is not needed.

When you get home and go to back into the building, most likely it is level or you are backing up hill. The trailer coupler is pushing forward on the hitch ball and the brakes are activating. Since the trailer has the 5th wire which is not electrically connected to the Tahoe, the reverse lockout solenoid is not being actuated and the brakes are doing what they are supposed to do.

There is a trick which is only a temporary-emergency fix. Disconnect the 5 pin trailer electrical connector from the Tahoe's 4 pin connector. Now plug the trailer connectors blue wire pin into the Tahoe's connector brown wire pin......and turn on the Tahoe's lights. The brown wire on the Tahoe is for the trailer side/marker lights. Since the Tahoe's brown wire has 12 volts on it when the Tahoe's lights are turned on and it is connected to the trailers blue wire, which is for the reverse lockout solenoid, the reverse lockout solenoid will be activated. The trailer then can be backed up without the brakes activating. (With the connectors connected together like this, the connector halves form somewhat of a "T" shape.) The ground connection when doing this will be through the hitch ball only. Again this is ONLY for a temporary-emergency situation.

The Tahoe most likely has an additional wiring harness near the spare tire which is used with the 4 pin connector to make the connections for a 7 pin electrical connector. Rewire the Tahoe for a 7 pin connector and either buy a 7 to 5 pin adapter or install a 7 pin connector on the trailer. It's not hard to do. I've rewired my 1998 Tahoe and 2003 Suburban to the 7 pin electrical connector.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

I put the 7 pin connector on my trailer side. No adapter needed. Easiest way to do it in my opinion.

 

[mcvette]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

Finally soved my problem. Seems the wire for the back-up lights had broken. I already had the 7 to 5 pin connector so knew that was not the problem.

While rewiring the plug in connector I went ahead and rewired the 4 pin connector. Everything works great now.

Thanks to everyone here for all the help and support.

 

[oldsub86]

Re: Am I doing something wrong!

What is the small cylinder that hooks to the brake line? Seen in the photo above behind the coupler/

Randy