adding a livewell in jonboat

[squarebobdumbpants]

Hey guys. I am looking for a little advice on adding a livewell to my 14' Alumacraft. I plan on using a cooler and building a nice frame around it to make it look good and hide any plumbing, wiring, etc. I have seen setups that use one bilge pump to drain, fill, and circulate. Basically you move the pump and hose where you need it-pump in lake with hose in livewell to fill or pump in livewell with hose in lake to drain. And to aerate leave the pump and hose in the livewell.

I'm sure that would work, but I want to make it more "hands-off." With a limit of largemouth, and a relatively small livewell, I bet the water will have to be drained and refilled pretty often to keep the fish healthy. With the method mentioned above, it would be quite aggravating draining and filling often.

My plan is to use thru-hull fittings for a drain and fill line (running out the transom), with each line having a seperate pump with a fused switch. But... I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. I was thinking of using a bilge pump in the livewell to drain and also aerate. The bilge pump would run to a t-valve with a handle to direct the water. Depending on which way the handle was turned, the pump would either drain the livewell or continually recirculate the water through a spray bar mounted above the water in the livewell. This leads me to a question about the drain line, though...Do they make some sort of one-way valve that would let the water be pumped out, but not allow the lake water to flow back in?

As far as the fill lines goes, I suppose it would be pretty simple. I'm not sure what type of pump to use, though. I think I have seen a pump that actually acts as the thru-hull fitting, with the intake being outside the boat, and the motor itself being mounted to the inside of the boat somehow. I have tried searching here on iboats for such a pump, but there are SO MANY im confused! Can somebody post up a link of the type of pump I would be looking for?

So does it seem like I am on the right track? Or are yall shaking your heads thinking "this guy doesn't know his butt from his elbow as far as boats go. He shouldn't even think about attempting thru-hull fittings:facepalm:"
I'm open for all suggestions!

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

Squarebob,

Welcome to iBoats. I am in no way a live well expert, but your idea is definitely doable. They do make a live well pumps that mount through the transom below the waterline. They draw water from the outside of the boat and dump it where ever you plumb it to. If you use the cooler idea, then you need to place the cooler at a height such that you can run an overboard drain from it. Water in the bottom of the cooler and drain out the top. Then all of the water that comes in will flow naturally out and overboard.

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

Iboats has the pumps - http://www.iboats.com/Tsunami-Aerat...4501493--**********.537024532--view_id.208949

 

[squarebobdumbpants]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

Thank you, Greg! That Tsunami is exactly what I am looking for!

For the drain, however, I am trying to avoid a "gravity/overflow" type design. Although that design is probably the best because fresh lakewater is constantly being pumped through, I don't think it will work in my application. I want all of the plumbing to be run under the floor, and unfortunately in a little, shallow boat like mine, the floor is below the water level. Therefore, I need some way to actually force the water out.

 

[cwhite6]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

If you are interested in spending the money, one of these is real nice.
http://www.basspro.com/TohoRig-Livewell/product/883/-217890

 

[Splat]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

There are varying opinions on this, but the easiest way with an aluminum boat is to have a thru hull below the water line. This pump will be routed to a spray bar at the top of the cooler. Your drain will be in the bottom of the cooler. In the hole for the drain you use a stand pipe. The height if this pipe will determine the water level in the cooler. Since the water will raise in the cooler to the top of this pipe before it begins to drain through it, making this pipe longer equals higher water lever in cooler, shorter = lower.

There's no need for a recirculate pump. Simply pump in fresh cool oxyginated water every few minutes using a timer. As the fresh water pumps in, the water level raises to the top if the stand pipe then runs out.

To drain simply pull the stand pipe out of the drain, and allow the water to gravity feed out of livewell.

Because you have a livewell you can simply allow the water to drain into your bilge and be pumped out by your bilge pump. The problem would be the accumulation of scales and debris in your bilge. A dedicated overboard drain is always better but sometimes on a small boat not worth the effort.

I'm trying to Think back to hydrodynamics 101. Even if your drain thru hull is below the water line I think the cooler would drain to the same height as the water on the hull. So a standpipe would still work properly, and the cooler would drain fully at the end of the day when you recover the boat out of the water. I think.....

Can someone that's had more coffee than me verify I'm thinking correctly on that last statement? In theory its working in my head.

Bill

 

[fishrdan]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

This leads me to a question about the drain line, though...Do they make some sort of one-way valve that would let the water be pumped out, but not allow the lake water to flow back in?

I don't know of any, but... Run your bigle pump's output line (inside the cooler) to the top of the cooler, then to a T valve that goes to the spray bar and dump line. When you need to dump the cooler, kick on the bigle pump until it's drained, then flip the T valve to the spray bar so water from the dump line can't siphon back into the cooler. Make sure the T valve is at least 6" above the water line, once the cooler is pumped empty, turn the T valve (slowly) from dump to spray bar and it should let air from the spray bar into the dump line and break the siphon. Heck, after draining the cooler just leave the valve 1/2 way between dump and spray bar, this will keep it from siphoning.

You should have an over flow drain too, just in case. If fill switch inadvertently gets bumped an left on (lets say you are at the dock and going to the marina to pickup a couple Slim-Jims and a 6 pack) the cooler would fill up, then your boat would start filling up Coming back to a 1/2 full boat... :facepalm:

Make sure to keep the cooler clean as fish scales will play *ell with the bilge pump (possibly jamming it the impeller), and could plug up your spray bar. I'd have the end of the spray bar removable so you can clean or flush it out if needed.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

I read Splat's post and the bottom drain and stand pipe could work, maybe.

The problem I see is, getting the cooler to drain fast enough through the stand pipe, hose and through hull. The livewell pump could fill faster than the cooler's drain can empty. I'm on a saltwater forum and have read several threads where guys have problems with their bait tanks over flowing, too much input and not enough output, fill pump too big compared to the flow rate of the drain. These guys are running the pump all the time to keep the bait fresh, and they usually complain about this problem after replacing the pump, new pumps capacity is too much for their drain's discharge.

Also, If the stand pipe is left out while the boat is in the water, the cooler is going to fill to the water's level with no way to drain besides bucket bailing or pulling the boat out.

If you are using a livewell timer along with a small 500GPH pump through a spray bar and the pump is only cycling for a minute every 5 minutes, I'd think the stand pipe should be able to drain that small amount of water. Fill the cooler, then flip over to the timer. I'm not sure the drain could handle the capacity of water if the the pump is left on (inadvertently, SlimJims & 6 pack) continuously though.

 

[Fisherball]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

This is one I'm considering for my boat. Click "Livewell Builder" button, go to "Interactive System Builder", go to System 3, first drop down menu & click "Pumpout Combo". Click all the buttons to see all that's available. Everything you could ever need in a livewell plumbing system. Very cool set up.

https://www.flow-rite.com/marine/livewell-builder

 

[5150abf]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

One thing I would do before you actually build this is to take the boat out and fill the cooler where you want it on the boat to see what it does to the boaots balance.

That is alot of weight and if you get it in the wrong place it could really screw up how the boat handles and how it sits at rest.

 

[lncoop]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

One thing I would do before you actually build this is to take the boat out and fill the cooler where you want it on the boat to see what it does to the boaots balance.

That is alot of weight and if you get it in the wrong place it could really screw up how the boat handles and how it sits at rest.

Ditto. If it's feasible your best bet would be to somehow integrate it into the center bench. I know we're answering a question you didn't ask, but that's how we roll sometimes. Let us know how she turns out.

 

[5150abf]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

Didn't have time top go into *** this morning but I have 3 pumps on my livewell, a pump in, pump out and a recirculate.

The in is a standard transom mounted pump with a strainer that goes to both livewell and catchwell, the pump out is a transom pump mounted inside the livewell with a strainer and the recirculate is a bilge pump mounted inside the livewell with a spray bar on it, the in/out are on a double throw switch that ws originally a nav light switch, up is in down is out.

I added the pump out last cause I got tired of having to stick my hand in the water to get it to drain also when you get to the launch you hit the switch and pump it out then hit the switch the other way and it fills with fresh water while I am parking the truck.

The way I have mine uses alot of pumps and wiring but it works exactly like I wanted it too.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

I suggest you take a trip to your local boat dealer and actually look at how the simple live wells are constructed. It has been explained in detail and they work great. I'm referring to the standpipe concept. Bottom drain, spray bar fill/aerate. Keep in mind you are using a SPRAYBAR to create the aeration. This setup cannot overrun the standpipe capacity. If you don't have a spraybar, yes, then the pump will overrun the drain. But just dumping lake water into the livewell doesn't aerate it much. Every other version mentioned here is a waste of time and money and is overkill on this boat. I believe IBoats even has the entire kit..

 

[squarebobdumbpants]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

Thanks to everyone for all of the great replies!

I am still undecided as to which method I am going to go with. I originally wasn't going to do an overflow system because I did not think the water would drain, but then I quit being stupid and realized that the water will drain to the same level as the lake against the the hull. My 7th grade earth science teacher would be very disapointed in me for not realizing that right away...

BUT...the bottom of my livewell will definately be below the lake level, so I couldn't possibly drain it completely while on the water if the need ever arised. That is why I would like a pump inside the livewell, also. However, as Silvertip said, this is a small, simple boat, and there is no need to go overboard (no pun intended) on it with a lot of fancy wiring and plumbing.

Decisions, decisions!


Edit: I just had another realization. I am putting the livewell practically as low as it will go for stability reasons. It is going to sit on the support ribs. There really wouldn't be any downward slope to the outflow plumbing. It would probably go uphill at bit, actually, due to a slight upward curve in the floor at the stern. As stated above, I do realize the water in the livewell will level itself with the lake regardless of the plumbing, but I just went outside and looked at the water level mark on the outside of the hull compared to the livewell/cooler inside the boat. As a rough guess, I would say that 1/2 of the cooler will be below water level. I understand the standpipe would be higher than that and would drain fine, but still....I'm leaning towards a bilge pump inside.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

If you pull the standpipe while under way, the back of the boat AND your livewell are well above the water line and the water will drain completely. You just need to stick the standpipe back in before you come off plane or it will refill to the lake level. If you think about it, this is why boats have a drain plug. You pull the plug when on plane and water runs out. No pump necessary. Insert the plug before coming off plane. Water does run down hill you see!!!!!

 

[Ned L]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

As has been mentioned, be aware of what this will do to the boat's stability. you will be much better off with the long dimension of the cooler facing fore & aft (rather than side to side). I would recommend you check out what "free surface effect" is, it can get you into trouble quickly, especially on a small, light boat.

 

[Alacat]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

I have built several for my 16ftr. This is what I have now. Takes two Plastic drums. One for the tank and one for the base to mount the tank to so it can be removed just leaving the base. Cut the top out about four inches down and it will fit inside the shell. Cut the shell to the height needed to hold the amount of water desired plus some splash room. Mine holds about 20-24 gallons. Transom fill to sprayer bar. Pump out pump underneath also can gravity drain. Overflow drain when you get carried away catching fish and forget to turn the supply pump off. Bubbler to make the bait happy. Quick disconnects on all lines so you can take it out or pour it out in seconds. Quick connects on electric wires also. All controlled from the back of the boat with dedicated switches. I have had 300 shad in there for a full day and 20 crappie for half a day. A little salt on the shad keeps em happy. I mostly catfish, but this will work for any situation.

 

[squarebobdumbpants]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

If you pull the standpipe while under way, the back of the boat AND your livewell are well above the water line and the water will drain completely. You just need to stick the standpipe back in before you come off plane or it will refill to the lake level. If you think about it, this is why boats have a drain plug. You pull the plug when on plane and water runs out. No pump necessary. Insert the plug before coming off plane. Water does run down hill you see!!!!!

My boat has a hard time getting on plane. You see, all I have to power it is a 36lb thrust trolling motor:facepalm:

Thanks to everyone for all of the input! For those concerned about the extra weight, do not fear. I have already taken the boat out and filled the cooler I plan on using. It makes the boat sit a touch lower in the water, but it doesn't have any negatvie affects other than that. If I were to get an outboard, it might would make handling difficult, but that isn't in the budget anytime soon.

Anyways, after weighing the pros and cons, I still want to pump the water out of the livewell as opposed to an overflow system. My original plan was to do something similar to the lousy Paint picture I have posted here (I didn't draw the intake to keep it simpler)

However, I was reading the manual for the Attwood Tsunami 500gph bilge pump and it says to not let the plumbing go below the pump to prevent air-lock. Unfortunately, as you can see from my pic, that throws a giant wrench in my plans. I know instruction manual are at times a bit over-particular and meticulous. I'm hoping Attwood is just being overly cautious by giving that piece of advice. Or is letting the plumbing go below the pump a big no-no for you real boaters? I haven't even heard of the term air-lock before. Except in The Abyss, ofcourse.

My original plan. Don't be jealous of my Paint skill

 

[squarebobdumbpants]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

Bump. Anybody?

 

[KevinWI]

Re: adding a livewell in jonboat

here is what I did in my Jon.