acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

[dazid1]

I am having problems with pumping enough water to my engine and have taken the plastic unit off the outdrive, its the one bolted up at the top of the feed tube when you drop the gear box down to check the impella (pre alpha mercruiser, 3.0 mercruiser engine, circa 1974) One of the retaining bolts has no threaded part for the bolt to go into and water was spraying out when checked with the hose. It has been put back like this last time by the looks of things. My question is has anyone had any luck getting round this problem by using liquid metal or a similar product? I was thinking of mixing some up and applying it like you would gasket sealer and putting it back, then perhaps making a steel plate to bolt to the remaining three bolts in the hope of stiffining it all up.
The other thing is that the plastic has melted quite badly, is this common? It must be the heat of the exhaust that does it, I have a spare that came off my origonal drive, but even that has been subjected to some heat at sometime?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

It sounds like the outdrive may have been run without muffs (an adapter that permits the drive to ingest water while on land) and that will melt the water pump and impeller fairly quickly.

Can you post a picture of the problem? It sounds like you need some new parts.

Erik

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

The impella and pump are like new, its the unit at the top of the copper tube thats the problem, I keep trying to post a pic but it tells me the file is too big any ideas?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

Make sure it's resized to about 640x480 pixels first.

I'm not sure exactly what part you mean, sorry.. I don't have a diagram of the unit nearby. Maybe someone with more experience will stop in.

 

[Don S]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

I think you are talking about the water pocket in the upper. See page 3A-13 on the right side of the page.
http://www-alt.mercurymarine.com/mnetdata/SERVICE/CRUISER/Servmanl/6/6A3R3.PDF
Sounds like one of the bolts has been broken off in the upper housing. I've never had any luck getting one out, but sometime back, I recall achris posted how to get them out. Might try a search of his posts on the water pocket and see if you can find it.

 

[ziggy]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

yeah, sounds like dons is ontoit. the waterpocket cover.....
someones been smoking impellers.....

dons is correct. achris is the man. he got me thru that darn waterpocket cover. and i was successfull. by not very much i'm sure..... but success is success.

now that ya got a broke off 1/4-20 ss bolt. yer gonna have to remove them all. . on my 1 drive, i broke 3 of them off. but i got one out. it would be benifitial to get at least one out. i think heat ya'll have the best success. blue tip wrench flame. work the bolt out as if it were a tap. back and forth, back and forth. slow. don't break them off.
the waterpocket cover itself i was able to obtain at my local mercruiser dealer. that was a couple years ago. assumming ya can get a replacement. just break off the plastic waterpocket cover by whatever means.
achris's tip was, assuming ya got one good bolt hole with threads. ya make a guide to guide yer drill bit down the center of the broke off bolt. it helps keep it going down the center of the bolt. i made my jig out of 1/2 plate steel. used a gasket as a template. anyways, after ya get yer jig made. ya use the one or more screw holes ya got that are good and mount up yer jig. then drill away. keep in mind. ya absolutely have to go down the center of the bolt. it's ss by the way. extreamly hard. it's screwed into cast aluminium. very soft. if ya start drifting off center drillin out the bolt. yer gonna get sucked into the cast aluminim. then yer done. hosed. when drilling. use a sharp bit and slow speed. see the metal being cut off. think the one i used was 10 or 12'' long. use lub. and don't drift off the bolt. once ya got them drilled out. i tapped for a helicoil back to 1/4-20. i permetexed the new part back on along with 4 new bolts.

ya get one chance. i did mine with the upper still on the boat. so i layed on my back. used my sholder on the drill for a lever to drill the ss.

last note. i extracted 1 1/2 of three bolts free hand drilling. no jig. the jig worked good. but the side of the drill bit ate into the steel makeing the guide hole sloppy. so i started to drift. went to freehand to straighten it out. successfully. good luck. but yer between a rock and a hard spot. ya fail. and ya need an upper .......

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

The bolts not snapped off, there is nothing for it to go into, someone has tried to drill it before and the lug has gone, how does it melt its 6" away from the impella, do they get that hot?. I am going to have to put it back with three only andhope for the best. I have pumped too much money into this allready got to cut a corner.

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

Just tried another photo, can't re sizi dont know how sorry.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

It almost sounds like someone used a torch to try and melt a bolt out of a hole....

Try uploading to photobucket... it's free, and you can just point and click after that to resize.

Erik

 

[ziggy]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

there is nothing for it to go into, someone has tried to drill it before and the lug has gone,

that's because...

The bolts not snapped off,

it must be snapped off. or there would be somewhere for the bolt to screw into.....

do they get that hot?

if there's no cooling water it gets hot enough to melt plastic...

how does it melt its 6" away from the impella,

it's called an impeller. and it melts 6'' away because there's no water to cool it off coming out from the manifold. cooling water and exhaust gas have mixed at the bottom of the riser and are on there way out the exhaust pipe. the water and exhaust gas pass by the waterpocket cover. if there's no water from a bad impeller. it's only exhaust gas which is hot enough to melt the plastic.

I am going to have to put it back with three only andhope for the best.

if ya do that, the leak will allow hot exhaust gas to enter the water system right at the leak. this causes hot air to mix with the water prior to it getting to the engine. this will not help keep the engine as cool as it should be as hot air don't cool an engine. so ya need to fix it.....

I have pumped too much money into this allready got to cut a corner.

it's not to expensive a project to drill them out. unless, ya miss drill them out.......

a pic would be nice..... do the photobucket thing. it works good....

the theory is the way i understand it. if anyone cares to straighten me up as to why ya can't have a leak at the waterpocket cover, feel freely.....

 

[Don S]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

I have pumped too much money into this allready got to cut a corner.

Read the lines in blue under my name.

As far as how hot it gets, it's not the impeller getting hot causing the problem, the lack of water going thru the exhaust to cool it is what is melting the plastic. Along with the rubber hoses in the exhaust system. the bellows, the shutters, the water pocket, pump housing and anything else that is not aluminum. By then the engine is so overheated from lack of water, that it could lock up at any time.
So, if you have thrown all the money at it you can, then it's either time to make a planter out of the boat, fix it properly, or try something original. Just don't expect anyone to really say "Sure, that works" cause where that part is, epoxy or sillycone, or fiberglass, or some other magic 2 part whatever isn't going to work (in the long run) might give you a few runs, right up till you aren't watching the gauge, then >>>>>>>>>>> BAM, super overheat. Good by engine.
Your choice on the repair method, but you really need an upper gear housing and your present gears and bearings reshimmed to that housing.

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

Cheers Don, of course you are right. The engine I have was picked up for ?900, guess thats around $1700, and I have run it for 1/2 hour watching the guage all the time to find this problem. The gearcase was around $600 probably picked up off ebay, took around twelve months as they just dont exist over hear. The planter idea yes I have suggested that allready, but keep being told not to give up. It may be time to start again with a more modern outfit, because as it is I am loosing out on the use of my simms as I am messing with this thing and getting nowhere, thanks again.
Daz

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm68/dazid1/P1010203.jpg
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm68/dazid1/?action=view&current=P1010202.jpg
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm68/dazid1/?action=view&current=P1010200.jpg
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm68/dazid1/?action=view&current=P1010198.jpg
I think I have done it now fingers crossed

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

Oh my.....
All items are toast.....
You will need to drill & remove the broken bolts with an EZ out.....
As Don S mentioned Achris has posted on how to drill out the water pocket cover bolts....
Look in the advanced search.......
This is not an easy task, you will need patience & the correct tools to gat it right....
Good Luck!......​

 

[ziggy]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

good luck with the ez out. i had zero success with that. it was just gonna break off. ya do that with an ez out and yer just as sol as ya are now. only worse. hard steel instead of ss...... be carefull.

As Don S mentioned Achris has posted on how to drill out the water pocket cover bolts....

ya got all 4 broke off. achris's idea is what i said. ya gotta have 1 bolt hole intact to take advatage of making a guide jig..... yer down to freehand drilling.... like i said, it can be done. i've done it. matter of fact, the best bolt i extracted was freehand. right down the center. i left the ss screw threads in the cast aluminium. i started with a drill bit that was the inside dia. of the bolt. thinking i'd tap back to original 1/4-20 in the houseing. but that didn't work out as i drilled so perfect that the 1/4-20 tap got hung up on the left over ss screw threads and wouldn't tap w/o fear of breaking off the tap. which is as bad as breaking off an ez out.... had to go oversize for a helicoil.....

This is not an easy task,

that's a fact for sure

the correct tools to gat it right....

that will be nothing larger in dia. that a socket as ya'll contact the inside of the housing and won't be stright. + long reach.... it's recessed deeply..... hang in there. yer not done yet if ya don't want to be......

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

Dont think I am goint to bother with the casting that has all four broken, that came with the boat and was total scrap when I stripped it, the one with the top right damaged hole I will try and repair. Three are ok and I may be able to drill and set a stud in the top right, its worth a try, I will keep you posted.
Daz

 

[dazid1]

Re: acceptable bodge (if thereis sutch s thing)

Sorted the water pocket ok, but now the drive is a bit noisey so its all up for sale.