a good debate

miloman

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what type of political system is best? Is it communism socialism facism or right wing american style big brother for me none of the above although none of the above would lead to complete anarchy I think we are already there so what are your thoughts<br /><br />you are given the task of creating the perfect society what is it!!!!
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: a good debate

I'm ready, let's get to debating.<br /><br />
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JB

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Re: a good debate

Different styles of government suit different situations.<br /><br />What is the education level of the citizens? What is their standard of living? What are the cultural characteristics and history of the state?<br /><br />A democratic republic, like ours, works best when the voters are informed and involved. Originally only white male landowners over 21 were allowed to vote. As each new segment of the citizenry were granted suffrage they were ready (past ready in most cases) to vote responsibly.<br /><br />There have been trends to the right and trends to the left, each including mistakes that are hard to correct. We have collected a lot of that sort of baggage over the past 200+ years.<br /><br />I paraphrase Winston Churchill: The American form of government is awful, except for all the rest. <br /><br />We have the freedom to criticize it and the power to change it. What better form could there be?
 

Homerr

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Re: a good debate

Kill 'em all...Let God sort 'em out.<br /><br />Lol<br /><br />H.
 

dkondelik

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Re: a good debate

WOW JB!<br /><br />Great hole Shot!<br /><br />Milloman, I'm abit confused by your premise.<br />"Right Wing American Style Big Brother"?<br /><br />Please re-read your history. IT IS, and has been at least since Rosevelt, the LEFT that wants to be involved in every aspect of our lives.<br />(pardon my spelling. went throught the public skool system)
 

gonfishn

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Re: a good debate

Remember that you need both wings working to be able to fly. Thats we (USA) always gets things done in the end......
 

dkondelik

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Re: a good debate

Hmmmmm.<br />gotta think 'bout that fer a while.<br />,.....<br />....<br />Thought about it.<br />I default to the constitution.
 

crab bait

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Re: a good debate

once again ,,JB's wisedom ,hits it on the head.. especially the edjamacation part..<br /><br />there is noway CHINA could not be communists.. way way to many uneducated people.. there govt. is perfect for 'em..<br />but that form has it's limits an can't last long..<br /><br />the perfect example of communisum is a 'wagon train'... everone gets an equal share & tasks,, to pursue a commom goal ..to reach the west coast..<br /><br />it's great form of govt. in it's truest form.. but the west coast MUST be reached..the goal must come to an end..
 

plywoody

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Re: a good debate

It is the left that wants to get involved in your lives? Interesting. And it is the right that wants small government? That's what I get a kick out of. Like government is getting smaller! Yeah, right.<br /><br />And I think groups like Jerry Falwell's, who are as right as you can get, wanting prayer in schools and a ban on abortion and all manner of other personal things--How much into your personal life can government get!<br /><br />My own sense is that every policy that has made a difference in this country that is generally accepted as good had it's start as a liberal initiative over conservative objection.<br /><br />Social security, medicaid, civil rights (Trent Lott was still objecting as of last year) voter's rights, environmental laws, etc. <br /><br />I cannot think of a single initiative started by conservatives that has achieved this status...<br /><br />Unless, you perhaps include the recent action of squeezing another 10 hrs of work per week out of single welfare moms, while allowing Enron like tax evasion techniques, off shore incorporation of businesses allowing them to be tax free, etc, that probably cost this country thousands of times what could possibly be saved by squeezing welfare moms.<br /><br />JB is correct, though. Democracy needs an informed public, and generally a middle class public. Dirt poor countries, democracy has seldom really took hold. In those, ideally you find a benevolent dictator to lead them--unfortunately, benevolent and dictator can rarely be used in the same sentence in the real world.
 

miloman

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Re: a good debate

HI there to answer you a bit JB<br />What is the education level of the citizens? What is their standard of living? What are the <br />cultural characteristics and history of the state?<br /><br />In a perfect society all citizens are granted equal acess to education regardless of socio economic situations. There would be no financial qualification. If you were able to enter on your own merits then so be it. The standard of living would be such that as a society we are no longer obsessed with material possesions we are more interested in persuing the personal growth of our selves through education & exploration. The cultural characteristics could be as diverse as your great melting pot ( which I believe is better then ours in Canada) the history like many coutries history, will have events that lead to suffering tragady but ultimatly are over come for the greater good. Klondike what I mean is democracy if we can call it that. I think today it is the special intersts that get you elected yes there is a vote amungst citizens but other then the outcome what role do they really have
 

roscoe

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Re: a good debate

The Left claims to fight for tollerance and acceptance. But they will neither tolerate or accept a prayer at a public event, public funding for pro-life/adoption groups (although my tax dollars must fund abortion groups), or my right to dis-associate my children from certain "special" groups.
 

JB

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Re: a good debate

Hmmm. Form of government seems to have taken a back seat here, in favor of liberal vs. conservative demonstrating the freedom to criticize.<br /><br />Without conservatism we would have become a socialist state and decayed away in Roman self indulgence.<br /><br />Without Liberalism we would have become a police state and destroyed ourselves in civil war.<br /><br />I'm with gonfishn. Without both wings we could not have flown.
 
D

DJ

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Re: a good debate

JB, is correct. The type of government, whether perceived as good or bad, is directly proportional to the education level of the citizen/voter.<br /><br />Dictatorships, typically supress the education of the citizens. Dictators will use the educatiuonal systems of other countries to educate their chosen.<br /><br />Uninformed populations do not know anything different.<br /><br />Our (US) education system is in shambles. There are some bright stars that emerge from it, yet there are the majority that do not have a clue.<br /><br />Whether the "dumbing down" of our society is a "vast conspiracy" or not-who can say. However, those in power, in my opinion have very questionable motives for their actions. That goes for both sides of the aisle.<br /><br />The re-election bait is too strong for too many to handle. That is not what our founding fathers envisioned. They envisioned a "citizen" legislator that would return home after a short period of service.<br /><br />Remember, money is great, however "power" is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
 

miloman

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Re: a good debate

well said djohns<br />it amazes me how wealty people will forgoe thier corporate life and in some cases spend millions of thier own money for a $100000 A YEAR JOB.<br />Mr Bloomberg is a great example, I believe that he spend upwards of 60 million to get elected. The motivation I beleive is financial gain not the betterment of society.
 

crab bait

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Re: a good debate

HUH..??<br /><br />if that's true,, then BLOOMBERG would be the dumbest/stupidest billionaire bussness man ever.. <br /><br />spend a dollar to make a nickle...
 

Jack Shellac

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Re: a good debate

I believe that it's an ego trip. They crave power and noteriety[sp?] beyond what they can get as a corporate bigwig or regular rich guy. Our ex-Secretary of the Treasury is a good example. He always was headed towards a very high-level goverment job, even when he was President of some big companies. Knew he didn't have the kind of personality to get elected, so would have to be appointed. It worked, for a while.
 

dkondelik

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Re: a good debate

Ply,<br /><br />Comrade,<br /><br />Lets see, Allow,… YES ALLOW Christian prayer is an intrusion? Very confusing. The public ed system already ALLOWS Muslim prayer, Wicken events and in some situations even Satin worship. This is all condoned as "Multicultural", therefore "Enlightened" and Good. But Christian rituals,….Even as in our "Pledge of Allegiance" (one nation UNDER GOD)", are deemed oppressive and in violation of the 1st Amendment. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.<br /><br />I'm by no means a deeply religious person BUT,…. I have grown weary of the principals that this nation was founded on, allowing it to become the greatest nation on the planet (qualified as I have spent too much time in many other countries around the world), dismissed as obsolete visions of oppressive racists.<br /><br />As to the wonders of the liberal initiatives, Social Security,… you've got to be kidding. I for one would see more of that tax money if I were to bury both sets of contributions, my employers contribution as well as my part, in the back yard and dig it up in the future then to wait on the enlightened ones to delve it out as they see fit. I'd be nearly a millionaire if those same stolen funds were put in a Bank Savings account at 4%. But NOOooo, we need the libs to control the purse strings. As Billy Bob Clinton said, we're not SMART enough to know what to do with our own money.<br /><br />Mediacare,.. ANOTHER HUGE Scam..I know the arguments," the intentions were GOOD" so that makes the fact that it's an abject failure OK. All we need to do is tax more and the problem will be fixed.<br /><br />Force Welfare moms to work. Look, we are an affluent society and can/should and do help to provide for those who CANNOT take care of themselves BUT,… why am I being held responsible for other peoples life CHIOCES? Yes CHOICES. In the overwhelming number of cases, the women CHOSE to get pregnant without a husband. I for one did not FORCE them to get pregnant.<br /><br />Civil Rights? You obviously forgot that AL Gore Sr. voted against the civil rights act. And which party it is that has a former leader of the KKK sitting in the Senate. <br /><br />Enron style tax evasion? Again you oopsed. It was in the '90s that these criminals developed, implemented and got AWAY with their fraud. It was under this administration that these crooks were caught and are being prosecuted.<br /><br />You have a good emotional argument BUT YOUR FACTS have really missed the boat.<br /><br />Miloman, crab, Jack,<br /><br />Yup! I think Bloomberg's brain is broken. IT must be an ego trip. <br /><br />All,<br /><br />Among the inspired brilliance of the founding fathers IS the Electorial College. By this approach, it is much more difficult for an aspiring King to purchase votes (liberal handouts) in a few select populace centers to win a majority and thus the presidency. This technique, recently proven, levels the playing field for the entire country by not allowing too much influence to be concentrated in small areas.<br /><br />The best form of government? Obviously a Representative Republic, IF the populace is educated.<br /><br />I'd bet that less then 50% of the voting population has ANY IDEA what is in our constitution. Why else would the Fed's get elected for their promissed Hand-Outs. There is NO constitutional athority for subsidised housing, wellfare, Social Security, drug rehab, medicare, etc. or for most of the taxes that enable the socialist crooks to redistibute my earnings. <br /><br />The PRIVILAGE to vote ought to pre-qualified by passing a mandatory civics test. Then at least, the populace would have some idea of the rights and responsibilities of the Federal government they are voting for.
 

gonfishn

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Re: a good debate

I know I may get slammed on this next statement but I need to express myself on political justification and whether I should or be allowed to discuss these issues with you folks. At 52 I have never voted. <br /><br />I celebrated my 21st birthday in Vietnam. We were being fragged by the NV one day and had taken a break in the bunkers. I recieved three letters that day and thought I would read some of my mail just in case.<br /><br />First one was from my true love who told me she had found someone else and wished me luck. The second was from My Church requesting a donation for a noble cause and the third was an absentee ballot.<br /><br />I realized that day that no one really cared about who I was or what I was trying to do for my country. <br /><br />So for all these years I have held a grudge with the political system. I love my country as much now as then. I pomise you as I type this note that I will vote the next time around. Who and for what cause I cannot say but I will be there the next time. Sorry but had to get this off my chest and who else but to you folks..........
 

JB

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Re: a good debate

Hey, Gonfishn.<br /><br />I appreciate your frustration.<br /><br />Some of us cared, a lot. LBJ&Co. did the worst possible job of justification of JFK's honoring of the SEATO treaty. The liberal press, of course, claimed it was a "civil" war.<br /><br />I know, from personally seeing the evidence, that Ho planned, financed, equipped and orchestrated the whole thing. Eisenhower knew it. That was, pure and simple, aggression for conquest. We were bound by SEATO to help. We (you) tried, but were defeated by the Media, not Ho.<br /><br />I thank you for being there and doing your share.
 
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