'97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

[MakoNY]

This happened out of nowhere. Went out on the boat today, ran out to a spot about 40 minutes away, engine ran perfect at 4500 the whole way. Left about 5 hours later, engine started up perfectly and ran at 4500 almost all the way home no problem.

Stopped right before I got home for a minute, throttled back to Neutral, and it started idling real rough at about 400 RPM, and spitting, so I increased throttle and it sounded fine again. Throttled back up onto plane and it ran great at 4500 the rest of the way home. Got to my canal and throttled down and it started idling real rough again around 4 or 500 RPM. I got down the canal at about 1000 -1100 RPM and it sounded fine, but got to my house and pulled the throttle back to get into my slip, and it stalled right out, started up and had to nail it into gear to turn the boat, hit Neutral before Reverse and it stalled again, started up and had to nail it in Reverse to get into the slip.

Now I cannot get it to idle at all, unless I use the fast idle lever and keep it at around 1800 RPM. When I do this it spits while it's running, and as soon as I pull back the throttle it will idle real low for a few seconds, spit like crazy and eventually stall, usually with a big spit.

I've had this engine for 4 years and haven't had a single problem with it, and now it will barely run out of nowhere. I did a decarb on Tuesday, let it sit for a half hour and then went out and did a few WOT runs to blow it out, no problem.

I filled the tank up with gas this morning, completely filled tank, but I figure if it was bad gas or something, it would have happened on the way out, not waited until I got all the way back to the home after running for over an hour at 4500, unless it took a while for my fuel/water separator to fill up or something, which I will check in the morning.

I pulled the plugs and they look fine, not fouled at all. Pulled the cover off the carbs, but I can't get it to run long enough to look down the throats while it's running.

Anybody have any idea. Sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders before it stalls.

Thanks.

 

[jonesg]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

If it won't run long enough even by choking , do a spark test.
Set adjustable spark tester to 7/16th inch gap ($12 autozone).

If spark is good try spraying fuel into the carb throats.
If you can make it run by spraying pre-mixed fuel into the carbs,
rebuild them with carb kits.

If it continues spitting its likely something is stuck in the reeds or a manifold air leak.

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

I can get it to run, just only with the fast idle lever at like 1500 RPM, as soon as I pull back off anything less than that it will start to miss and sputter and spit.

It will get up and go and get the boat up on plane no problem, and run around the bay at 5000, it just won't idle for crap.

Would reeds just all of a sudden have an issue, no warning, and would they cause an idle problem but no problem at higehr RPM? What about a powerpack? Would that cause no spark at idle maybe, but higher RPM the spark is fine?

Just guessing here as I haven't had time to do anything yet.

Thanks.

 

[Daviet]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Do as jonesg suggested and do a spark test.
If the spark is ok, I would think you have a carb problem.

 

[ezeke]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Sounds like you may have dropped a cylinder; do a compression test, then the spark test. Check your spark plugs.

Is it a crossflow or a looper? What's the model number?

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Model # - J115TSXEUA, it's a crossflow.

The plugs look good, completely normal looking, maybe a bit light brown, but basically normal.

When I first got this motor it had a bad spark plug boot, and was running on 3 cylinders the first time I took it out, it idled fine, just had trouble getting on plane. Replaced all the wires, and the idle stayed basically the same but it ripped up onto plane in a second. That was 4 years ago though, no problems AT ALL since.

It sounds/feels like it might be losing more than one cylinder at idle now, maybe losing 2 at idle. Once I get it up to around 1500 it runs fine and rips up onto plane no problem, and runs all the way up to 5500, no problem.

Completely stalls when in Neutral. Spits for a second or two and then stalls out hard.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

since you brought it back to the slip and it was stalling...have you taken it BACK out and run to 5500 rpms???

or when you say it runs to 5500 rpms it was the same day you started having issues BEFORE you brought it back and couldnt keep it idleing???

checking the spark is pretty cheap, then spraying the gas down the throttle opening while it is spitting and coughing...would still be a cheap test...

if both those avenues dont pan out do like suggested and rebuild the carbs carefully..and see if that helps

good luck

bob

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Bob....I haven't been able to take it back out again, can't keep it running long enough to even get it in gear to get down the canal.

When I came in last time, I stopped about 10 minutes from home for a minute and heard it running real rough, low RPM in Neutral and spitting. Put it back in gear and took it back up to like 1200 and it sounded/acted fine. Hit Neutral again and it did the same thing, so I was like I gotta just get home, something is up. Put it in gear and throttled up and it took off onto plane as fast as always and ran 4500 10 minutes home, no problem.

Got to the canal and went up it at like 1000-1100 and it sounded fine, got to my house and hit the "notch" where it's just in gear, and it went down to 4 or 500 RPM when it's usually at 900 in that spot, and it started spitting and running really rough. Hit Neutral at my dock and it stalled, had to start it and hit forward and then start it and hit reverse to get it to the dock. Now it will barely start and when it does it has to run at like 1500 to stay running with the fats idle lever.

I am gonna do a compression and spark check tomorrow. I just have one question, how can I disable the ignition so that I can do the compression test without the motor starting, or is it OK if the motor starts during the compression test, as long as I have the plug wire grounded of the cylinder I am testing? I don't have the safety lanyard to pull that will disable the ignition, so what other way can I disable it to crank but not start, besides pulling all of the spark plug wires, because then I'd have to ground them all right?

It probably won't start anyway, it will probably just crank, so it might not even matter, but just curious. I've heard of doing running compression tests too, but not sure if I should be doing that.

Thanks for the help guys, I'm just learning, and appreciate the advice and patience, I'm amazed at how much you guys know, wish I knew as much.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

I have always done compressionm with all the plugs out.

and the same for checking spark...

I use a spark tester bought at the local autoparts store...it has a clip to attack to the block somwhere... and I let all the other plug wires just hang.
good luck

bob

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

I always heard/thought that if you don't ground the plug wires properly when they are off the plugs and you are cranking, you can do damage to the power pack, since that high voltage has no way to ground.

Is that not true? Your way seems a lot easier, but I don't want to harm my power pack. I have no reason not to trust you Bob, I'm sure you know way more than me, I just never heard that, but it will make it easier.

Thanks.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

I always heard/thought that if you don't ground the plug wires properly when they are off the plugs and you are cranking, you can do damage to the power pack, since that high voltage has no way to ground.

Is that not true? Your way seems a lot easier, but I don't want to harm my power pack. I have no reason not to trust you Bob, I'm sure you know way more than me, I just never heard that, but it will make it easier.

Thanks.

dont be so sure... I am self taught...

and only relate experiences( faR TOO MANY IT SEEMS) I have gone through.

life is a class room...we learn every day as we go..

if you heard right.. I have been a lucky dude....

id err on your worries and just pull the kill laynard on the control

just re read you dont have one...what year control do you have??

you might not have a laynard, but id guess you have the kill switch and small plastic piece the laynard attaches to...

with out the laynard...you might not recognize it..

but id also add...my 2001 50 hp control would stay put when the laynard clip was not there....maybe you have a sticky-gummy control as well

bob

bob

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Yeah the lanyard was actually in a side pocket of the helm when I bought the boat, but I could never get it to fit around the ignition switch and it didn't seem like it should fit, maybe the PO swapped out the ignition switch or something, but the lanyard never fit in and I never really bothered with it.

I don't know what year control I have, but it has the black button you push down on top to release the shifter for fast idle.

Anybody know how I can kill the ignition but still be able to crank so I can do a compression test?

Thanks.

 

[Daviet]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Leave the key in the off position and use a remote starter button, or a jumper wire, on the starter solenoid.

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Thanks Daviet. What do I connect a jumper wire between on the solenoid, which points?

 

[Daviet]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Hook one end of the jumper wire up to the large post that the cable from the battery connects to on the starter solenoid. There are two small posts on the solenoid, one is a ground and the other comes from the ign switch, touch the other end of the jumper wire to the one that comes from the ign switch.
The engine will turn over for you.

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Got it, thanks man.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

mako...the piece probably works...but you dont know HOW it works ha ha

you actually have to PUSH IN on the key and THEN slide the kill piece in from the side....it holds the kill switch in the IN postion....


you have a correct control..it is a BIMINI correct??

looks like this?

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/O...NNACLE - SINGLE LEVEL - KEY SWITCH/parts.html


bob

 

[MakoNY]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Yup that's the binacle (control) I have. I took another look and I don't see anyway that kill switch lanyard can go on, I think the PO may have swapped out the ignition switch. If not wouldn't the engine never run without the lanyard hooked up, basically in the "kill" position the whole time? It's been disconnected for at least the 4 years I have had it.

 

[ezeke]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

A good number of those combination switches were replaced due to repeated failures. It was the subject of Service Bulletin # 2304.

All of the combination switches with copper colored termiinal should have been replaced.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: '97 115 won't idle and spits all of a sudden

Yup that's the binacle (control) I have. I took another look and I don't see anyway that kill switch lanyard can go on, I think the PO may have swapped out the ignition switch. If not wouldn't the engine never run without the lanyard hooked up, basically in the "kill" position the whole time? It's been disconnected for at least the 4 years I have had it.

THEORETICALLY, I have two of those controls and they both work right...but I had a side lever for my 50 and the "button" for the kill switch was in the key as well and it stayed on when the kill laynard piece was removed...probably because of crud or damage.

it is feasable that is whats wrong with yours...OR like someone else said, it has been replaced..

if so..the kill switch wires should still be under the control cover someplace!!!

good luck

bob