96 200 johnson timing issue???

[Grassi25]

My timing only advances to 6 deg. btc at wot (supposed to be 18deg). The adjustment is adjusted as far as it will go. The boat will barely get on plane without much weight, then it won't go over 4000 rpms.

What could cause this????

 

[Big flop]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Is the timer base moving when you advance the throttle?
It may have melted stator goo on it - Stuck?

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Is the timer base moving when you advance the throttle?
It may have melted stator goo on it - Stuck?

yes it is moving freely, I have removed it and cleaned it thoroughly.

The motor seems to idle fine in and out of the water.

The timing arm is only a little over an inch from the stopper when in neutral. The stopper is adjusted in as far as it will go.

This is after getting it back from a half @$$ rebuild job, and it has not run since.

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

any ideas would be greatly appreciated. We have been working on this a while and not getting anywhere.

My only other idea is to start ordering new parts and hoping they work.

Thanks.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Yes that will absolutely cause you to have no power to plane out.

Here it what I would do....

Disconnect the timing linkage from the throttle linkage. This can be done many ways, but just remove a key piece (any piece) that effectively disconnects the two linkages. There is one particular pivot piece, a kind of a swivel linkage, that is held by a shoulder bolt that threads directly down (vertical) into the intake....it is a large bolt head, maybe 3/4" or so....and that piece pivots on the bolt.
That is the one I remove. Easy to get to, and easy to put back. Does not mess up any adjustments....etc...

I disconnect the throttle side so I can give it manual advance WITHOUT also giving it gas, so the risk of gas spewing out the plug holes is minimal. Don't pump the primer bulb, and don't hit the key "choke"....the idea is to just crank the engine, with spark enabled, but no gas.

Pull all plugs except #1. Now you should be able to manually (with your hand on the loose timing linkage) advance the timing through it's full travel.

Put a timing light on #1, and place the timing linkage in idle position. Crank the engine, and note the reading. Should be around 4*ATDC.

While the engine is cranking, move the linkage manually, watching the timing move using the timing light. It will move on the flywheel toward that 18* mark.

If it never makes it to 18*, there is something stopping the timer base from moving.

I just stopped writing this and re-read your posts....You say WOT timing stop is screwed IN as far as it will go.
Notice that the farther IN it is, the shorter the distance the timer base will rotate under the flywheel.
So, turn the screw OUT to increase the travel of the timerbase as it rotates. Manually put the timing linkage at the WOT position, and crank the engine, checking the WOT timing against the flywheel marks. As you turn the WOT timing screw OUT the timing should move around the flywheel to approach the 18* mark. I would set it for about 16* BTDC and lock it in. MAke final close adjustments on the water at 5k rpm.

Once you get it set, put the linkages back together so the carbs now operate in sync with the timing linkages.

It is highly recommended that you go through the entire link and sync procedure again.

 

[Big flop]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

You had flywheel off to clean timer base ?
Make sure you got the flywheel aligned with the key.

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Already gone through the same process Daselbe suggested. And when we took the fly wheel off we noted where it was, but then it would only go back on one way as well, I think???/ We were having the problem before taking off the fly wheel the first time. We checked the #1 piston and it coincided with tdc on the fly wheel, should that mean it is on right??? We are gonna take it off again and check to make sure that it is the correct timing base. I know that the guy who worked on it swapped some parts. Should have thought to look at that the first time.

Oh and the timing arm stopper is in the position where it lets the timing advance as much as possible, all the way in or out depends on which way you look at it. The arm is maxed out and it is only 6 deg. btc.

As note at idle in driveway it is at 6 deg atc. So I guess it will only advance 12 deg total.
Also, if we try to retard the timing while idling it just gets rough and shuts off.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Ok I see what you mean by "which way you look at it...".

Check your timing magnet ring under the flywheel at the hub to see if it has not spun and moved off position.

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Thanks Das, will check try to check that tomorrow afternoon after work.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Look here to compare locations.

http://www.cdielectronics.com/downl...uide/OMC Flywheel Trigger Magnet Location.pdf

I want to be sure you know about that flywheel key....when you put the flywheel on, the outer magnets pull it hard, and aligning the key is sometimes difficult.

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Daselbee, your the man! Well, pulled the fly wheel off and using the diagram you posted we could tell it had moved, I saw some cracked glue around it and could move it back with my hand. There was a mark that seemed to line up with an indentation on the magnet. The manual calls for a new fly wheel, but we are currently letting it set up with some gorilla glue and hoping for the best.

I don't know if that is how it came from the factory or if someone has tried to fix it before, like I said, I had a mechanic swap some parts on me, it almost looked as if there were signs of where that fly wheel may have been on a motor that suddenly locked up. Which was not the case with my motor, it had all original parts and the paint and wax was still on all the screws and bolts. I am gonna put it back on tomorrow afternoon and see if she will run. That had to be the problem, now i just have to hope I don't have to drop a grand on a new fly wheel, and then there aren't any other problems.

Thanks!!!!!!!!

 

[daselbee]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

I only wish you had used JB Weld instead of Gorilla glue. If you have the chance to re-do it now, I would. Gorilla glue will crystallize over time and crack out again. The position of that inner magnet ring is very critical.

I am glad you were able to even SEE that it was moved.

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Ok, put the fly wheel on make sure all is connected. Hook up the timing light.


No fire. This is really killing me, I guess I got too excited. Why would I all of a sudden have no fire. It was getting fire before, all we did was re align the hub magnet and put some glue on it.

Frustating, we are now reading the manual and retracing out steps.

Any ideas of what we could have done to cause this, ofcourse I guess it could be circumstantial.

 

[Grassi25]

Re: 96 200 johnson timing issue???

Thank The Good Lord first and then I would like to thank Daselbee one more time. The firing problem was the timing base, that had been switched out on my motor went bad. After inspecting it, it had some cracks on the inside and even a small hole. I figure that taking the fly wheel on and off the magnets probably helped loosen it up inside. Any way found a used one in town and she fired right up, Got the timing perfect now just need to take it to the river. It is a long shot, but I am hoping we are not gonna have any more issues for now. The weather is supposed to be very foul in the morning, but I am going anyway.

Wish me luck!

Also, special thanks to my Grandpa, he is the main part of the we I have been talking about, he really is a Genius. Thanks for the help Papa!