94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

[nomad317]

First, I appreciate all who contribute to this site. I have learned quite a bit since I found it. Anyway, I know close to nothing about boats (aside from everything I've learned here) I'm preparing to purchase a 94 bayliner 1604 fish/ski that has a 94 Force 70hp. I've read every post here pertaining to this subject but there were a few conflicting Q/A's. This is our first "starter" boat and we wanted to keep it cheap & simple. This boat SHOULD be fine for taking myself, wife, and kids (4,10, & 15) tooling around the lake; fishing, tubing and basic skiing. Our family and my wife's sister's families all take a week long vacation every year. The "sisters" like to take the kids (mostly teenagers) out skiing, tubing, etc. but the speed boat rental cost is killing us. Could've bought 3 boats by now.<br />My question(s)<br /><br />1) Will the motor be enough for skiing with 2 adults (avg weight) and a couple of kids (1 or 2 in and 1 skiing)?<br /><br />2) Will a lower pitch ss prop help out ENOUGH to get the skier up with above "load"?<br /><br />3) 90hp is max. for that boat. Should I swap or keep looking for a different boat?<br /><br />4) I also looked at a 95 bayliner 1700 w/ 95 Force 115hp but it had been "used" quite a bit. torn seats, no top, not geared for fishing, scratches, smelled awful. It was only about $200 more than the 16'. It would cost me hundreds to "rig" it for fishing. The 16' has livewell, pedestal seats and the bimini top. Opinions?<br /><br />I know I'm asking a million questions but I need to move fast, spring is coming up quick and deals will disappear with the snow. Since I'm in Indiana, it's all "slim-pickings".<br /><br />Thanks in advance...

 

[steelespike]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

First both the small Bayliner boats have a <br />reputation for rot in the floor and transom.<br /> Check them over carefully.<br />The Force motors have a reputation for poor performance and reliability.They are also orphans<br /> Mercury no longer does parts support other than what is all ready in the system.To be sure parts <br />will be around for a long time but some are allready dwindling.The motor should be checked by a good mechanic.<br />An aluminum boat will perform better with less power Almost any other motor will do Merc.<br />Evinrude,Johnson,Suzuki,Etc. Etc. Just be sure you have a reliable dealer/mechanic near by.<br /> Based on your requirements I think a 90 would be the minimum to get good skiing and overall performance.We used to ski with a very light boat and a 50 Evinrude With a 100 pound spotter and<br />a 175 pound driver and a very good 200 pound skier we could barely get up on one ski really needed 2 to get started.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

spike alluded to it... unless it's a steal, look<br />4 diff. boat IMHO.<br />or...<br />get a local 3rd party shop to give her the once<br />over, even if it costs you a few bucks...<br />bayliner/force were entry level in price/quality.<br />kinda like a GEO tracker... a chick truck.<br />good luck! getting info beforehand is a great idea <br />M.Y.

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Thanks for the quick responses; <br />steelespike, the 16' apears well maintained, the transom "fair", checking the floors Sat., they're gonna bring it inside for me. The comp test on the 70hp was 100, 110, 110<br />Unfortunately the next level of "quality" boats is about $2000 more. Like I said... not many choices around here. (unless I have over 7 grand)<br />I agree, mellowyellow, it is a "chick truck" that's why the wife liked it and why I don't think we'll be getting an aluminum one. I figured if she likes the runabouts more, I'm gonna get as many "fish" features as possible.<br />I would estimate around 400 to 550lb load for the one week a year vacation but I would hate to have an entire "clan" angry w/ me if only 3 people could go out at a time.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Your problem is youre starting out with a fairly heavy boat.You can get better performance by selecting the right prop. Youll need to know<br /> your rpm with your average load now. Then you can<br />figure out what pitch will work best for you.<br /> Less pitch gives a better hole shot and load pushing but sacrifices top speed and you need to be careful about overreving.<br />When you check your boat grab the motor and shake it front to back and watch the transom.Your<br />compression is OK, 100 lbs. is usually cinsidered<br />minimum So it may be a little low for a relatively<br />young motor.Also 10% diff. between cylinders is the high limit.Your right on the limit.<br /> A motor will run with less but obviously at<br />less power.<br /> Be sure there is a dealer or mechanic that knows Force and is willing to work on them.<br /> I have had very little personal expierence with <br />Force.But have been comepletely unimpressed.<br /> After saving for years for a new boat my<br /> expierenced boating neighbors bought a new boat and Force motor They only kept it one season.<br /> It was one of the earlier ones so maybe yours will do better.

 

[dmessy]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Check the starter's bearings out real well, they go bad quickly and cost around $110 (can't be rebuilt). That motor needs an impeller yearly as they are flimsy and take a set rather quickly. Either verify its been changed very recently or insist a new one is installed. If I was in the market for what you'er looking at, I'd pass on the Force/Bayliner combo and spend the extra $ for a much better boat( Nitro, Skeeter, Tracker, Mercury, Rude, etc.) Opinion given from experience.

 

[dkondelik]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Hi nomad,<br /><br />welcome to here.<br />I would keep lookin'. There are more boats here then you might first think. I'm about 35 miles south of INDY and come across boats fairly regularly on 67 and 37.<br />Heck, some, OK, a few of the dealers are pretty good at giving a real fair deal on some of there trade in boats. If you do decide to keep looking AND if you eventually end up looking at dealers AND if you want an opinion of an honest one, let me know. I've got a neighbor that is a dealer who has earned my trust.<br /><br />Good,.. NO,.. BEST of Luck<br />HAVE FUN!

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Thanks again everybody for all your input. Now at least I'm less sure about jumping on it than I was before.<br /><br />steelespike, I will give the motor a good shake on saturday.<br /><br />dmessy, I wish I could find an affordable Nitro. They are a sweet boat.<br /><br />klondike7, I have been dealing with all the local dealers in Indy and it is a trade-in and according to the NADA site, the price isn't too far off. I've been checking the local papers but the boats all seem to be well over 10k. Yes I would appreciate your opinion of an honest dealer. (out of the 8 to 10 I've only found 1 and the boat we had been looking at was sold last week)<br /><br />Again, everybody, thanks for all your info.

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

So steelespike, and all...<br />Maybe (if the boat is in good shape) a non-Force 90hp anything added to, instead of the 70hp, the 16 footer may be enough to get the skiers up...<br /><br />Or what about an older boat but not an older motor? Basically, how old is too old?<br /><br />thanks again

 

[steelespike]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

If the boat is good that may be a way to go.<br /> Keep in mind with any boat weight distribution,<br /> motor trim and propellor pitch are critical to performance. A properly cared for older boat/motor should be ok.As far as performance/milage etc.<br />I would stick with 1985 or newer motors.<br /> A true deep V boat will ride smoother than a<br /> shallow V or flat bottomed boat but will be slower to get on plane.Generally a fiberglass<br /> boat will ride smoother than a similar aluminum.<br /> Because of the weight.Of course weight is the enemy of acceleration.<br />Have I confused you comepletely yet.<br /> I think tha most important thing is to find a boat that will not spend all its time in the shop.<br /> The old saying "a boat is a hole in the water<br /> into which you you throw money" can be really true.<br />Take your time let condition be your guide not<br />the time of year.

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Spike,<br /> Thanks for all your advice. I've seen where people have had to replace the plywood flooring on the cheaper bayliners and I'm ok with all that but what about the transom. If it is/becomes loose or has a little "give" is something like that able to be easily remedied or once the transom goes, so goes the boat? (can you tell I know very little about boats... I'm lucky to spell transom )

 

[G DANE]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Hi nomad317 <br /><br />Sorry to have another opinion. I learned to ski behind an old 40 Hp mercury, and later skied a lot behind a new 50 HP mercury. We had lots of fun. I´m not familiar with forces, but i guess it must be horsepower to horsepower. I cant tell how relaible a force is, but I guess it depends of maintenance and how hard it is used too. A transom can be repaired, go to boats forum on this page and do a search. Please be aware it doesnt HAVE to be bad at all and it can be checked by someone who are used to boats. Do a little research so you are sure what you buy.

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

G Dane, I welcome differing opinions. The problem I'm seeing is that there would be approx. 2 avg. adults and 2 or 3 teenager's (1 skiing) and I wouldn't think 50, 60 or 75hp would be enough to ski. With your 50hp, how heavy was your load, type of boat, etc. <br /><br />Also anyone, what about late 80's boats Sea-rays, Glasstream (87-89) w/ bigger motors or even I/O's??? <br /><br />Thanks again for your input...

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

If it's propped right, and the motor's healthy, you'll have plenty of power.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

I can give you more detail, if helpful. I agree with Dane, I have started on one ski behind a 50hp Merc and I weigh 235. I'll admit it was a bit of work, but I prefer not to have to drop a ski so I did it routinely last summer. Boat was a fairly heavy (waterlogged) Larson 156. <br /><br />"Propped right" on the Merc meant that she was turning 5500 rpm at about 32 mph (GPS). If the boat winds out within three seconds, from a standing start, when you're by yourself in the boat, you're propped as low as is reasonably helpful.<br /><br />The boat originally had a 65hp, which died. Before we got the 50hp together, we briefly ran a 115 Johnson on it. Tore the transom up pretty well, but you were up on one ski before you even got to the propwash...

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Thanks ledgefinder,<br /><br />So you think a Force (not a Merc) 70hp, if propped right, would be fine to not drag the skier for 30' upside-down with a group of four in the boat? (the boat is 1350lbs. w/ people it would probably be just under 2000lbs.)<br /><br />I really appreciate everybody's help on this.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

nomad317 <br />If you look a little closer at the NADA weight rating, that 1350 is WITH the trailer included. So you will be considerably less than you think and that's a good thing. Probably more like a 1000 lbs for the boat and motor, 1600-1700 lbs loaded. You will probably be OK when you pull a skier if you keep the load(People, ect.) somewhat forward when you take off. I used to do it all the time on my 16' wellcraft with a 65 hp Merc on the back and had little problem with myself and 2 others aboard. Just kinda had everyone get forward a bit at take-off. Have the motor and boat checked out at an independent dealer, then start arguing the price. The newer force motors have a lot of Merc in them anyway, so you should be fine if everything checks out. Good Luck,

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

If it were just a driver and observer, I'd be pretty sure you're OK. Add two teenage passengers, plus pulling up a skier...with a 70 & a 16' boat, I'd say you're getting pretty close to the edge. If you're sure you need to do that, I'd keep looking around until you find a fatter motor. <br /><br />The OMC (Johnson & Evinrude) 85hp is the same displacement (cubic inches) as the OMC 140hp, just tuned for midrange instead of screaming top end. The 85/88/90hp OMCs therefore make great ski engines - real strong midrange.<br /><br />The width & length of the ski makes a big difference, by the way. The old-time adds have stuff like two skiers behind a 33 Johnson. The tiny slalom skiis they make now cut a lot nicer, but you've gotta have more speed & power.

 

[roscoe]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

I have a 16' alum fish 'n ski, well a bit more fish than ski. Has a '95 70 hp Force.<br /><br />Boat, motor, fuel, batteries, troller, misc, 2 adults, = 1700 pounds. 39 mph. This is with the stock 10.125 x 15p prop, running at 5200 rpm (top of recommended rpm's). Have skied with it a couple times and it pulls up a 180# skier with ease. Don't know about the extra bodies.<br /><br />The extra kids should be back at the pick up/drop point putting on life vest and skis for their turn anyways.<br /><br />Way back when... we skied behind a 14.5 glass tri-hull bowrider with a 40hp OMC. Now that was tough to pull up a skier and get going.

 

[nomad317]

Re: 94 Force 70hp too slow to ski?

Thanks rickdb1boat, ledgefinder, roscoe and EVERYBODY!<br /><br />I'm heading out to give the boat a thorough inspection (transom, floors, etc...) I'm also going to see if for some $$$$ they can up the engine to maybe an 85-90hp. I'll let everybody know what happens. Again, thanks.<br /><br />Any opinions on a 1989 Barretta 185 F/S w/ a 4.3L OMC Cobra???<br />Could be another good deal...