86 Johnson 140 running problem

M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
well, i had a post that got fixed... so new post...

I have had my boat out a few times this year, and found my problem was the timer base was stuck so my timing wasn't advancing.

Today, confident in my vessel, took the father in law out fishing.... and well some really nice guy towed me back in.

the boat started up and ran really easy at the docks... idled nicely through the no wake zone (did notice some surge in idling though) I went WOT and it hit the proper RPMs and got right out of the water (prior issue from the timer base being stuck) well I made it about 1/2 mile and it kept getting lower RPMS till it just quit. I could get it re started run in neutral from idle to higher RPMS. then putting it in gear it would die over an idle RPM most the time and once in a while it'd try to go and once the throttle really started to go it'd bog out and die. The idle in neutral would go from 800-1300 rpms and just varied between each start.

so.... where do I start now? if it matters the engine had a lot of black on it(like a car exhaust will do if it's running too rich) , wether it was from excessive fuel from trying to start


oh yeah, and i'm not sure if the stator is charging... my volt meter never really went up, but i'll check it tonight/tommorrow w/ my DVM.
 
B

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

Did you happen to pump the primer bulb when the prob occured ??
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

all 4 plugs looked identical... all slightly wet but not fouled...

glenn - the solenoid (the red lever correct?) was pointing downward...

boobie - no i did not pump the bulb when it happened... was proudly cruising to show off for the father in law... (south that went!)


the only good part of the day was when i originally throttled her down... it got up and out of that water and to 5500 rpms like it wasn't anyones buisness... for like 1/2 mile! lol
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

btw... when i first started it... i pumped the primer bulb 6 times... turned the key and it fired right up... so it's not hard to start at all... at that point it ran till the stop...
 
pn

pn

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
374
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

guesses. 1. hole in fuel pump diaphram 2. float/needle problem 3. air/fuel leak in fuel line 4. Timing/syncing flywheel key broke 5. Toasted motor, compression test, hope not 5.
 
G

glenn property of pam

Commander
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,906
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

bulb should pump up hard when its not running if it is not something is leaking like a float needle or primer. pull the aircover off and start it then look for gas leaking/pouring in the throats of the carbs.
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

PN -
1) mine has the VRO delete with just a normal fuel pump... i did take it off and clean the screen the other day.. the o-ring seemed to have been swelled up.. but i figured if it was going to leak i'd be able to see it... but maybe not...

2) possible

3) possible as well... how would i test this? i ordered a new fuel/water seperator filter tonight... mine looks new but i just bought the boat so who knows

4) you mean the only key way on the fly wheel? possible i guess

5) i believe if you don't know it's not wrong :) lol

random - last weekend before getting the timing base to move right i was riding it and we played w/ the "idle adjustment screw" which according to the picture is the one that is right down from the timer base arm... (same little area... i could be wrong.. the pics suck... please tell me if i'm wrong) that screw is out probably a good inch and half or so... but when i messed with it last weekend it wouldn't run either... till i got it back to where it was at... but after that it ran like a champ.... doing a de-carbon on the engine tonight and tommorrow i'll start it up and smoke out the place and then spray through the carbs and take the main jets and clean them as well....
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

Glenn - how do i tell if the float valves are stuck? and by primer you mean the little switch thing correct?
 
G

glenn property of pam

Commander
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,906
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

mrnmrskyle said:
Glenn - how do i tell if the float valves are stuck? and by primer you mean the little switch thing correct?
Click to expand...

fuel bulb will not get stiff as the gas will just run into the carbs. Primer is a fuel bypass to assist with cold starts it just dumps fuel into the inlets when the key is pushed or when the lever is turned to manual (its a diapham so it can split and leak but its easy to spot as the bulb will not get hard as the gas goes straight into the inlet) So does the bulb get stiff?
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

when i start it at docks the bulb never gets like rock hard... still has just a little squeeze to it... today i did have it where it got like so hard couldn't squeeze it at one point... but this was only for just a second. i will be looking at this stuff tommorrow... so if the primer or float is stuck it'll cause the bulb to not get hard?
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

i was looking for the rebuild kit for that fuel pump so i could have the O ring to go around the part w/ the screen but the kit doesn't seem to come w/ that o-ring ofcourse (this is just a do it to be safe deal)
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

Well... Let the sea foam sit over night.... Went to start it and took carb cover off to watch for the overflowing like Glenn mentioned... Guess what I found... 2 of my idle jets were Mia!!! Think this may be my problem.... They were one top and one bottom (2 diff carbs) on port side!!! Ill assume they are somewhere compressed at the lake lol.... But anyone agree this could be the issue at hand? I know they were there last weekend on my venture so yeah.... Guess they were flooding me out!
 
Joe Reeves

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

mrnmrskyle said:
last weekend before getting the timing base to move right i was riding it and we played w/ the "idle adjustment screw" which according to the picture is the one that is right down from the timer base arm... (same little area... i could be wrong.. the pics suck... please tell me if i'm wrong) that screw is out probably a good inch and half or so... but when i messed with it last weekend it wouldn't run either... till i got it back to where it was at.
Click to expand...

If you're speaking of the horizontal screw that has a rubber cap on the head of it that the timer base butts up against when it reaches it's limit, that is the full spark timing advance stop screw. If that screw isn't set exactly where it belongs, you stand a very good chance of melting a piston among other weird happenings.

(Timing At Cranking Speed 4?)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: If your engine has the "Fast Start" feature", you must disconnect/eliminate that feature in order to use the following method. The "Fast Start" automatically advances the spark electronically when the engine first starts, dropping it to normal when the engine reaches a certain temperture.

The full spark advance can be adjusted at cranking speed,"without" have the engine running as follows.

To set the timing on that engine, have the s/plugs out, and have the throttle at full, set that timer base under the flywheel tight against the rubber stop on the end of the full spark timer advance stop screw (wire it against that stop if necessary).

Rig up a spark tester on the #1 cylinder plug wire. Hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire. Crank the engine over and set the spark advance to 4? less than what the engine calls for.

It's a good idea to ground the other plug wires to avoid sparks that could ignite fuel that may shoot out of the plug holes. I've personally never grounded them out and have never encountered a problem (fire) but it could happen.

I don't know the full spark advance setting your engine calls for, but to pick a figure, say your engine calls for 28?, set the timing at 24?. The reasoning for the 4? difference is that when the engine is actually running, due to the nature of the solid state ignition componets, the engine gains the extra 4?.

If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4? which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place.

No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.

Be sure to use your own engines spark advance settings, not the one I picked out of the air here in my notes.
 
M

mrnmrskyle

Seaman
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
56
Re: 86 Johnson 140 running problem

okay, well i had found 2 carb orifices missing on the port side.. one top and one bottom... well in researching i found that mine had larger number in the top holes and the smaller ones in the bottom holes... evidently according to johnson this is wrong lol... so i got new carb orifices and put them in according to johnson parts catalog. well, it starts and runs fine, (has a little cough to it once in a while) but when i let completely off the throttle it idles low... like 600 rpms and then eventually dies... but if i keep the throttle barely taped to 1000 rpms it stays running fine. SOOO... i kept trying to figure out how to adjust idle.... if anyone can give me a better description than the manual (it says to turn the screw on end of the timing base connecting rod arm) it'd be awesome. i also found that the cam roller on that moves the carb linkage has flat spotted. (from what i can tell in the pictures it is completely round... wrong or right?) well... ideas? tonight i will order a new cam roller and a new plug wire... i went to pull them off to just see if they were all sparking and got shocked just touching the lower starboard side one.... i'll assume this is wrong :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top