85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

[krobertson]

So I hope someone can help me here. 1989 Bayliner Capri 1700 85hp L drive. Boat ran great at river 3+ hours and it has 2 trips to the lake since I have completed the redesign of the inside. About 1 tank of gas roughly (21gal). First trip to the gulf yesterday and everything was fine for the first 30 minutes. Lots of boats were running out it got a bit rough. Started trolling for 5 minutes 4-6 knots. That is when it started skipping and I shut it down. Would not stay running so I sat for 30 minutes. It started back up but was still missing. I limped back to dock and I could feel it pick up #3 and drop it so I told my brother to the front of the motor and poke wires. He poked the bolts holding the CDI units and it picked up #3. The top right stud on the rectifier was sparking a bit when he touched it.

Get back to dock, clean all connections on the rectifier but the top right stud spins it is not secure in the rectifier. This wire appears to go up into the flywheel...probably the stator? Got some new plugs, put them in it. Started up ran perfect. Went back out and engine temp buzzer came on. Shut it down and let it cool off. Started it back up skipping again...ugh.

At home on trailer today, started it up and #3 is missing. Pulled plug wire off #3 and it is defiantly that cylinder.

Where do I start? Is it the Rectifier...a CDI? I can swap coils to chase the coil issue...and I guess If I put #1 coil in place of #3 and it works then it's the coil. But if it's not the coil then can I use the spare signal wire from #3 CDI box. There is a second un-used wire on the back of the second CDI, probably for a 4cyl.

Any ideas guys?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

You can temporarily disconnect the rectifier to see if it has any affect. If not, do the following:

Check the spade lug connections on the ends of the wires. There is a small piece of black heat shrink insulation that covers the actual soldered/crimped connection where the wire is connected to the spade lug. Sometimes the wire strands break off inside the heat shrink and you cannot see it. The heat shrink tubing keeps the wire attached to the lug, but the wire inside is hanging on by a few strands or completely disconnected. Check the wires from both the trigger coil and the CD modules.

If they check out OK, then try using the wires from the unused portion of the second CD Module for number 3 cylinder.

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

pnwboat thank you for the reply. So here's the skinny now. # 2 is the only one firing after further digging. I got # 1 to fire by reconnecting/crimping the #1 wire from the trigger and the same wire that goes to the CDI. So then I did the # 3 wire. No fire on # 3 and I lost # 1 again. It has to be a wiring issue. All 3 coils omh out the same so I do not think the coils are at fault. I don't think it's the CDI box for # 1 and 2 because #2 is firing. It has to be an issue with wires? Should I just redo ever connection and any splices? Puzzles me how I could get # 1 to start hitting but lost it again. (I was doing this by pulling the plugs and watching for spark is how I know it was working.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

I would check and maybe re-do all of the spade lug connections. They're know for causing intermittent ignition problems. A little time consuming to do, but well worth it in the long run.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

The extra wire is for the 4th cylinder.It's possible to rewire .
Do like pnwboat says and replace all the connectors,even the trigger ones.
Do that and see if it makes a difference.
Then change packs around see if it follows the pack.
The rctifier shouldn't really makee it drop a cylinder.
Get 3 spark testers.$6 each.
If your gonna work on motors these will come in handy!!
Get a compression tester too.

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

I will get spark testers, I have one I will buy 2 more. This way I can maybe turn it over and wiggle wires and watch for spark before I dive in. I have the compression tester already. I tested it before spark fell off. They all tested within 10 lbs of each other with highest one at 136 lowest one 129. Remember JerryJerry05 this is the one I posted pics about last week when I was asking about the tilt/trim ram. That is fixed now. It ran like a champ...pops off from cold start in about 3 sec with chock on, shuts off, turn over again with no choke and she always purred like a kitten. Thoes waves and that crashing around I think is what took something out.

So I will redo ALL connections back their. I will also remove the flywheel and check the stator and trigger. If that does not fix it I will move the packs around and see if it follows.

I have to fly to Bogota' until Thursday night. I will jump on this Friday and post an update. Anyone have any ideas of the best connectors to use? Should I do any heat shrink or no?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Any standard spade lug connectors are fine. If you crimp and solder them, make sure the soldered part of the wire does not extend past the crimp. That's the problem with the factory soldering job. The soldered portion of the wire extends past the actual crimp. The wire is very stiff and with all of the movement and vibration, the wire strands tend to break right where the solder ends. Heat shrink is kind of a personal choice. I use the type that has a sealant inside. It melts when you apply heat and helps prevent corrosion.

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Ok here is the skinny. I re crimped every spade lug connector. I got spark back on # 1 and # 2. Switched # 2 coil to # 3 and got fire. Then I switched # 2 trigger wire to # 3 and got spark. Pulled flywheel off and inspected stator and trigger. Put it all back together and lost # 1 spark AGAIN and still # 3 gone. # 2 is still good. So more than likely trigger is gone???? Anyone got a spare I can buy? Or maybe a hook on one?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Haven't seen an intermittent trigger. Not saying it can't happen but it still seems that whenever you mess with the wiring, the spark come and goes. Also make sure the insulation on the trigger wires is not rubbing against the flywheel.

Have you checked the ground wire that goes from the coil/CD Module mounting plate to the engine block?

Also Check the resistance of the stator windings. You should have two pairs of solid Blue and solid Yellow stator wires. One set supplies the 1st CD Module, the 2nd set powers the 2nd CD Module. Disconnect and measure the pair of solid Blue and Yellow wires going to the 1st CD Module. It should read 680 - 850 OHMs. Same thing with the second set.

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

pnwboat - I checked the trigger and stator visually last night. But I did not know what to test or how as you described above. Visually it looked ok...old but not cracked or damaged in any way. The ground wire I also re-crimped the ends...every wire I have re-crimped on both spade lug connectors. The small one on the right side (facing rear of boat) and the one on front of motor. I also cleaned both main harness connectors. They have all been treated with di-grease too.

I will Ohm it out in about within a couple of ours. This is driving me absolutely nuts! It was awesome for 5+ hours...bring it to the ocean and it dies....ugh. Puzzling thing it #1 comes and goes...tbc....

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

ALSO.....does anyone know how to check the Trigger without a special tool....as you read everywhere else?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

The trigger typically has two wires for each cylinder. The may be marked with the number 1 on the first pair of wires for the first cylinder, number 2 for the second cylinder, and number 3 for the third cylinder. Disconnect one of the wires for each pair and check the resistance. It should be between 48 - 52 OHMs.

From the symptoms that you describe, it sounds like an intermittent connection, or marginal ignition voltage. That's just a guess though. Just hang in there, and you'll eventually get to the bottom of it.

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Status update! Ok trigger has 4 wires, one per cyl and other is ground. #1 firing, #2 firing, #3 dead. Took trigger from #3 hooked it up to #2 and got fire. So trigger #1, 2, and 3 are working. Now yesterday I used trigger #2 to make #3 Power pack and coil fire. Tied it today and nothing. So that tells me with all this wire stuff I must have not hooked up #3 right. So here goes nothing. Each Power pack has a top side and botton side inputs and outputs and ground. So there are 2 wires per side. The Red/White for all 4 sides are not hooked to anything. This leaves a Green/white and a Orange/White that are hooked up to the trigger system. (only 3 sides being used because it is a 3 cyl.) There is also a brown wire from each power pack hooked into the Stator. BUT #3 cyl the brown wire was hooked into a lug by itself. I believe this may have been my issue? Waiting on my brother to get back to test. But the brown wire for each side of Power Pack being used should go to a stator wire for power correct? So if #3 side of Poweer Pack was in lug by itself no power? Like I said I have been moving wires like a mad man chasing the issue. Yesteday ALL coils and All Power Pack sides worked. Now today nothing out of Power Pack #2 for cyl #3 and 4.

I hope this brown wire was the issue and after I did all the rewiring and testing I hope I just forgot the brown wire hooked to the correct side of the Power Pack. Now if this is the correct wiring and no fire...trigger #3 is good because I hooked it to #2 pack and it fired. This would be a stator issue and I need to ohm it out correct?

Sorry for being so tenacious and asking many questions. I just want to make sure I isolate the issue and get the correct part. At $250 plus for these parts I don't want to throw things at it and "hope" it was the correct part.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

It is normal to see one of the stator connections for the 2nd CD Module to be by itself. This is the unused side of the 2nd CD Module. I looked through the wiring diagrams, and I do not see any solid Brown wires coming out of the CD Modules. Not saying my diagrams are 100% correct. Seen errors on them before. I do see a Brown w/Yellow stripe and a Brown w/Blue stripe coming out of the CD Module. On my diagram, it shows the Brown w/Blue stripe on the second CD Module is not connected to anything. The Brown w/Yellow stripe should be connected to the stator.

If the wires are connected correctly, then yes the stator would be the next thing to check.

Don't worry about asking too many questions. I think we've all been there before at one time or another. I've found that swapping parts without verifying that they are actually bad is pretty much always an expensive, and frustrating way of trouble-shooting. Especially on the Prestolite ignition systems.

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

PWNBOAT- Thank you for the help. After reading this and going over the wires again....Bingo....spark. Your going to love this. I put brown wire in right spot as you stated, I found in my haste (yesterday had a rain storm coming in) I had 2 blue wires to one terminal going to the front CDI. Moved the blue wire back to where it should be....spark on #1-3 now.

The brown wires were what seemed to be the problem to start with. When I tried to disconnect them they would come apart at the heat shrink. So I believe this was the issue all along. Now all terminals are new and treated with di-grease. Will be taking it to lake tomorrow to give her the wake bounce wave smashing test. That is what got it going nuts in the first part.

Again thank you VERY much for guiding me through this. Save myself $250+ and got a boat that has spark again.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

The lake test going over wakes is the real test. If it passes, then you should be good to go. Good luck!

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Results are in! The lake test...seemed to take a while to blow out the motor due to limping in on 1 cyl at the Gulf when the spark went away. Ran the boat a few laps around the lake...maybe 20-25 minutes of running. All is well and then it overheated again. Let her sit and couldn't restart it. Battery was getting weak because I have not charged it since I left the gulf when she first lost spark.

First....YES I did replace impeller when I got the boat. But I guess I need to pull foot and check it again.

Same thing happened at the Gulf....running along for about 1 mile and BUZZZZZ! Not sure what is going on. Could it be the carbs running a bit lean? Plugs are clean if anything a bit wet? Do I need to check thermostat? It ran in yard in a tub yesterday for like 15 minutes no buzz. Am I supposed to leave the blower on the whole time I am using the boat?

The screw that is right beside the thermostat that comes out...haven't people been taking those out and making "P" tubes with them so you can see when water is coming out?

Do I need to create a new post for this......AHHHHhhhhh so many questions that I do not have the answers to! Glad you guys do!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Well probably best to start a new thread so that the subject title matches your problem. I don't believe you need to leave the blower on the whole time. The cooling path on the L-Drive is slightly different than the regular outboards. The first thing to check is the water pump (even though you just replaced the impeller) and make sure the lower unit is installed correctly. You can heat up a pan of water with a thermometer. The thermostat should open at about 130? - 140? F.

If the motor was running too lean, it probably wouldn't run very well. I would suggest that you perform a compression test if you haven't already done so.

Hose number 12 in the diagram below feeds the cooling water to the block. Hose number 11 and 14 dumps the water after is has circulated through the block and head into the exhaust. Make sure these hoses are in good shape and not restricting flow.

Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. - EXHAUST SYSTEM - FORCE 1989 85 H.P. L-DRIVE

 

[BlueFishCrisis]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

Be careful with diagrams for the 89 (and mayble later) L drive setups. Verify that you have the exhaust manifold and cooling setup as shown in the diagram. Mine does not. It was apparently updated during some kind of service bulletin in 1991. Different manifold, gaskets, and cooling routing. If it does match, I have a few spare parts you might be able to use because of mis-ordering.......

 

[krobertson]

Re: 85hp L Drive internment spark #3 cyl

I will let you know....heading out shortly to take a look see at all the stuff way in the back hard to get to ugh parts!