79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid? (Fixed!)

[photonimbus]

Hi, thanks in advance for any help.

I have a 79 Evinrude 85 hp that has been running great until... I hadn't been out in a couple of months so I was going to run it in the driveway with the hose. When I tried to start it I could hear the starter turning but not engaging. I lubricated the shaft on the starter and ran the gear thing up and down a few times, still no luck.

Connections - I cleaned all of my connections: at the battery, the ground on the engine, the pos to the soleniod, basically any connection I could see. No luck

Battery - I charged my battery still no luck. I had it tested and it was boderline so I replaced it, still no luck.

Starter - I took the starter apart, cleaned, reinstalled. I then bought a new starter because the old one looked pretty beat. No luck.

Solenoid - I replaced the solenoid, no luck.

So that is basically where I am at right now. At some point around replacing the starter, the starter stopped even turning, the solenoid just makes a clicking sound like bad stuff is happening inside of it. (this is with both the old and new solenoid)

Sorry this is kind of long but I wanted to give a full picture.

Thanks Again,
Dan

 

[jdshort98]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Dan,

It looks like you have replaced everything except for the power supply to activate the solenoid, and the battery cables. Do you have a volt meter? If not, owning a boat will require you to have one, go pick one up. Don't spend a fortune on one, even an old analog one will do. Some basic checks following the power from the battery, to the starter should help you out.

Make sure that you have good battery voltage, around 12.6 DC volts at the starter solenoid. Have someone try the key while you check the reading here again, if it drops more than 1 volt, you need to start working your way back to the battery. either one of those connections you checked are not clena and tight, or one of the battery cables is bad. Remember, grounds are just as important as the positive cables. A suggestion to everyone, throw away those wingnuts on your battery, and install SS lock nuts.

Let me know what you find.

Good luck!

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

First thing I would do is try jump starting it directly to the starter with jumper cables. This will tell you if the issue is with the starter/flywheel/motor, or elsewhere in the system.
- Scott

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

cables!, 90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

 

[photonimbus]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Thanks for the help.

I jumped the starter from the positive side of the battery directly to the starter and it cranked fine.

I am getting 12.7v at the battery and 12.7v at the solenoid. I don't have another person with me right now so I can't check while cranking.

I am going to go back through and clean/check all of my connections.

Can I eliminate my battery as a problem without having it load tested since it cranked the starter?

Also, can I "jump" the solenoid somehow to eliminate my key/ignition?

Thanks Again.
Dan

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

If that battery has been load tested, and charged up to 12.65 volts, I would use a short jumper wire to short the small terminal on the solenoid to the large terminal on the solenoid (the one that has the POSITIVE battery cable connected to it). Be prepared for a spark. You are essentially doing the same thing that the ignition key does in the START position. If the engine spins fine every time, you either fixed the problem, or if not, the problem is in the harness between the engine and ignition switch.

Then disconnect and inspect the large harness plug in the engine compartment. Clean it as best you can with electrical contact cleaner, smear grease around the contact edges,and reconnect. Now use the ignition switch to try and start the engine. If it works every time the connector was the culprit. If not, you now need a voltmeter.

Put the POS voltmeter lead on the small terminal on the solenoid. The NEG lead goes to ground. Have someone turn the ignition key to START. If you don't see 12V troubleshoot the harness between the engine and control box. If 12V is present every time, the switch is good.

When you connected a single jumper cable between the POS battery terminal and directly to the large terminal on the starter, and the starter spun each time you did that, the solenoid is usually the culprit but you say you changed it.

Connect another jumper cable to the NEG battery terminal and a good ground (bare bolt head or bracket) on the engine. Now do the same test you did in the previous step. If the starter now goes ok, you still have a negative battery cable problem or the solenoid is bad. If it still doesn't work right, you have a bad-new starter.

 

[rockyrude]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Tashasdaddy has the number one cause in my book for starter troubles, the battery cables corrode from the inside out where you can't see it. Take both ends of the both cables off and put the ohmmeter across each cable. If you get more than a few ohms the cable is bad.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

You can usually isolate the weak point by touch if you act just after the attempt to start. The excessive resistance always telegraphs itself by heat. Feel the battery terminals first; if they are hot, the cables are probably corroded at that end, and so on.

If the cables are corroded along the length, rather than at the ends, flexing the cable will produce a noticeable crunching sound and feel. This condition often occurs at points of frequent bending, caused by wear.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Here is the metered way to test the cables, if interested.

Testing the Positive Battery Cable to the Engine

Select the DV Volts position on the meter.
Connect the Red (Positive) lead of the meter to the positive battery POST.
Connect the Black (Negative) lead of the meter to the starter solenoid terminal where the positive battery cable is connected.
Using a remote start switch, activate the starter solenoid to spin the engine and observe the reading on the meter. A reading above 0.6V is an indicator of a bad cable or bad connection.
(A) If the meter reads above 0.6V, move the Black lead of the meter to the positive battery cable terminal on the starter solenoid and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable connection is bad.
(B) If the meter still reads above 0.6V, move the Black lead of the meter to the positive battery cable terminal on the battery and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable is bad or undersized.

Service Note: A bad power connection to the ignition or battery charging system can be found by connecting the Black lead of the meter to the power connection of the ignition system or charging system and working your way back to the battery positive post. At no time should you see a reading above 1V.

Testing the Negative Battery Cable to the Engine

Select the DV Volts position on the meter.
Connect the Black (Negative) lead of the meter to the negative battery POST.
Connect the Red (Positive) lead of the meter to the engine block where the negative battery cable is connected.
Using a remote start switch, activate the starter solenoid to spin the engine and observe the reading on the meter. A reading above 0.6V is an indicator of a bad cable or bad connection.
(A) If the meter reads above 0.6V, move the Red lead of the meter to the negative battery cable terminal on the engine block and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable connection is bad.
(B) If the meter still reads above 0.6V, move the Red lead of the meter to the negative battery cable terminal on the battery and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable is bad or undersized.

A bad ground connection to the ignition and battery charging system can be found by connecting the Red lead of the meter to the ground connection of the ignition or battery charging system and working your way back to the battery negative post. At no time should you see a reading above 1V.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

You may also find this thread helpful;

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=230719

 

[photonimbus]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

OK, I am still trying to track this thing down.

HighTrim, thanks for your help, I have a couple of questions. I tried your method of testing the cables with a meter.

Testing the Positive Battery Cable to the Engine when I did this the meter read 10.5, so I assume this is where my problem is. I am a little confused about how to do part A. In the first part of the test I had the Black lead of my test meter on "the starter solenoid terminal where the positive battery cable is connected". Part A tells me to move the black lead to "the positive battery cable terminal on the starter solenoid". That sounds like the same spot to me?

When I tested the Negative Battery Cable the meter didn't move so I assume I am OK on my ground side.

Also, in your earlier post about about jumping the solenoid "I would use a short jumper wire to short the small terminal on the solenoid to the large terminal on the solenoid (the one that has the POSITIVE battery cable connected to it)" I get what the large terminal is but which one is the "small terminal" The one that goes to the starter, the small one attached to the ignition or the small one that is grounded?

Hey, thanks for your help. Sorry for the rudimentary questions...

Dan

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

In reference to your second question, it is the small one attached to the ignition. Bad voltage at starter (with clean tight connections), measure the voltage at the solenoid small terminal with the yellow/red wire with the key turned over to "start" you should read within a half-volt of battery voltage, otherwise you have a wiring fault beween the keyswitch & solenoid. In reference to the first, an easy test is to hook a single fairly large gauge jumper wire between the two. If the readings are now normal, you can be sure that the wiring is faulty. Also make sure you actually take the connections off and physically sand them, file them, whatever to make them shine. Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[Lakester]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid?

hello-

photon sed:

"When I tried to start it I could hear the starter turning but not engaging."

this seems very basic to this problem, from my exp. seldom have i seen a starter turning but not engaging, unless the power to starter thru solenoid is low. then usually... its a deminishing sound as batt runs low. or the flywheel wont turn. then it can kick the bendix out under certain conditions.

if it were mine, i would short circuit it all straight to the starter. disc the solenoid... and jump bat - to starter case. then batt + to starter terminal. hit it fast then remove, see it it looks happy. then see if it will actually crank engine. if it were mine, id pull plugs. then when cranking good try with plugs in.

following iboat tips i prob would disc ground to entire boat. this should protect any/all electronics. then i would use bat out of boat, or better yet another one... and jump straight to starter.

it should spin like a whirling dervish!! then if so, back track and see where the weak link is. if it wont spin off a hot jump. then starter needs attention. if it spins but bendix sits there... better talk to the bendix.

well, this is what i would do... hope it may help.

regards,

lakester

 

[photonimbus]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid? (Fixed!)

OK, so following the very helpful advise in this forum I narrowed my problem down to the Positive wire from the battery to the solenoid. I checked/cleaned both connections and could not find the problem. When removing it for replacement it broke at a corroded point that was under the deck.

So finally I found my problem... I finished replacing the wire and the engine cranked right up. Beautiful!

Thanks very much for all of the help.

Dan

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 79 Evinrude 85hp Starting/Solenoid? (Fixed!)

Good job on the fix. Any tks for the update, its nice to hear how things turn out. Rare that happens but is nice when it does. Happy boating.