72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

[robtown]

I've been bringing this one back to life. With some of ya'lls help I've restored spark and it now runs, but it will not shift into neutral (it's an electric shift). I can see that it's getting power to the wires running down to the gear box.

How do I check the solenoids?

 

[F_R]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Just checking, you ARE aware that it will only shift with the motor running aren't you? And you say you are certain you are getting power to the wires. OK, then first make sure the lower unit is full of the proper oil with no water in it. Electrically, resistance between disconnected green solenoid wire and ground should be 5-6 ohms. Same for the blue. Current should be 1.5 to 2 amps. Mechanically, the tops of the solenoid plungers must be flush with the top of the solenoids (both).

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Yes, I have the motor running (pretty good, one key turn, might be idling high...) I can't seem to get it to shift at all. Not to neutral or reverse.

I drained the gearcase and add 20 +/- ozs of the required oil. Checked impeller seemed ok.

Didn't pull the solenoid(s). From the switch at the control box I get proper resistance, guess I'll drop the foot again, see if the plungers are stuck.

 

[F_R]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Reading over this thread I don't see where you checked the remote contol shift switch. Or did I miss something? That is the #1 failure problem. Check the voltage back at the solenoid wires (connected). Ignition switch on, shift to neutral and reverse. Should be battery voltage on the green one in neutral and both green and blue in reverse. Shift it a whole bunch of times to make sure it isn't an intermittant problem, which it usually is.

THEN you can dig into the lower unit if you feel so inclined. The solenoids don't normally get out of adjustment unless somebody messed with them. Failure to shift when everything is electrically correct is generally caused by crud and chips in the oil, fouling up the hydraulic system.

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I guess I didn't mention earlier that the switch in the control box was bad and I now have it wired to a 3 position switch (like a headlight switch). I played around with the wires and stuff last night.

I did drain the lower gear case and refilled with the proper gear oil, the stuff that came out was milky, and kind of cruddy.

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I pulled the solenoids and cleaned up in there, not much to see/fix there. Reassembled, still no shifting joy.

I double checked the gear oil and it appears as if it's getting water in there just from the earmuffs, I haven't put this boat on water yet.

Anything specifically I should be looking at?

As for my shifting problems, is there anything else other than the solenoids that might cause it not to shift?

Ready to take her out, but can't until I have this last issue worked out...

Thanks,
R

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

if you are getting power to the solenoids, then they are not working, unless they are not grounded.

 

[OBJ]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I'm not real sure the switch is wired right. Take a volt meter and follow the outline below. If your voltages are not as the outline states, then the switch is not wired right.

In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)

 

[F_R]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

If you have voltage to the solenoids and the resistance checks out, then the gearcase has to be completely disassembled. The problem is in the oil pump assembly up in the front of the gearcase. Everything else has to be removed before you can get to the oil pump. Not saying you can't do it, but it really isn't a job for an amatur. Special tools are needed, and a good service manual. You need professional help.

 

[100es72r]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I have a 72 100hp with electric shift and had the same problem a couple years ago. I ended up taking the lower unit apart. It is a real pain and I wouldn't have tried it without a manual. If you are not very machanically inclined with access to a wide set of tools, you should be careful before you start this process. Also, does your water pump have two tubes leading up the the power head? Mine does and I found that after I put new seals in the lower unit and tried it out with muffs that I immediately got water back in the fluid and it would not shift. Now I only run the motor in the lake or a tank. I think that the muffs can force the water past the seals into the gearcase. I don't know this for sure but I have not had a shifting problem in two years since stopping use of the muffs.

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I am mechanically inclined, with a good selection of tools (my dad's a TV repairman....

I have not purchased a service manual yet, but still have managed to bring this motor to life (dead timer base). Now it cranks with the turn of a key.

I can see that the solenoids work fine, tested resistance, then pulled them and bench tested, they both do what they are supposed to do, when 12v is applied - move the pushrod down about 1/4" and hold it there. I can see down into the chamber and see both the neutral and reverse shift tabs and they move freely (I'm assuming that when hydraulic pressure is applied they "pump up" and do thier job once the solenoid(s) kick in)

I can turn the drive shaft by hand and see oil being pumped into the chamber as well.

Couple questions:

It's obvious someone's been poking around in there, the plug to the solenoids is cut so I've been using moisture resistant wire nuts to connect. It appears as if the whole exhaust chamber is exposed to water, wires and all, if those wires/connctions were exposed to water, would that short the connection to the solenoid(s)?

I've seen reference to the allen screw that is near the water intake screen, something about do not remove or you will have to disassemble the gear case to fix something or another. This allen screw has obviously been removed at some point, I can see the paint line is broken around it. If this was removed and not reinstalled correctly, would it cause a situation that would cause it to not shift?

Based on this last response, it seems that perhaps it may behoove me to refill the gear case with fresh oil (type C or whatever it's called now), and take it out on the water. Could this cause more damage if the oil pump is bad?

I've been told that nobody works on these electric shift models anymore, and I'm into this project boat for about 700.00 now. What I have for my money is a 15 ft Glastron tri hull that needs carpet and seats, and a 50 hp Johnson with completely new ignition, that starts and idles at the turn of a key.

I watched an identical motor sell on Ebay last night for 400.00 Controls and all, allegedly running...

Anybody care to render an opinion of whether or not to continue on this motor?

 

[OBJ]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Robtown....I posted voltages and when they should be present. Did you check this out? The voltages must be as outlined or the gear case won't work.

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Have not checked amperage, but have checked voltage all the way to the wires coming out of the soleniod cover, 12v is present as it should be to green for forward and to both green and blue for reverse.

 

[F_R]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I am mechanically inclined, with a good selection of tools (my dad's a TV repairman....

I have not purchased a service manual yet, but still have managed to bring this motor to life (dead timer base). Now it cranks with the turn of a key.

I can see that the solenoids work fine, tested resistance, then pulled them and bench tested, they both do what they are supposed to do, when 12v is applied - move the pushrod down about 1/4" and hold it there. I can see down into the chamber and see both the neutral and reverse shift tabs and they move freely (I'm assuming that when hydraulic pressure is applied they "pump up" and do thier job once the solenoid(s) kick in)

I can turn the drive shaft by hand and see oil being pumped into the chamber as well.

Couple questions:

It's obvious someone's been poking around in there, the plug to the solenoids is cut so I've been using moisture resistant wire nuts to connect. It appears as if the whole exhaust chamber is exposed to water, wires and all, if those wires/connctions were exposed to water, would that short the connection to the solenoid(s)?

I've seen reference to the allen screw that is near the water intake screen, something about do not remove or you will have to disassemble the gear case to fix something or another. This allen screw has obviously been removed at some point, I can see the paint line is broken around it. If this was removed and not reinstalled correctly, would it cause a situation that would cause it to not shift?

Based on this last response, it seems that perhaps it may behoove me to refill the gear case with fresh oil (type C or whatever it's called now), and take it out on the water. Could this cause more damage if the oil pump is bad?

I've been told that nobody works on these electric shift models anymore, and I'm into this project boat for about 700.00 now. What I have for my money is a 15 ft Glastron tri hull that needs carpet and seats, and a 50 hp Johnson with completely new ignition, that starts and idles at the turn of a key.

I watched an identical motor sell on Ebay last night for 400.00 Controls and all, allegedly running...

Anybody care to render an opinion of whether or not to continue on this motor?

The rubber covered wire/cable is supposed to be one piece all the way from below the solenoid cover to where the disconnects are at the powerhead. There shouldn't be any connections inside where the water is. Is that causing problems?? Maybe, I just don't know the situation.

The allen screw holds the lower drive shaft bearing in place. I doubt it's causing you any problem.

The oil pump serves two functions, shifting and lubricating the upper drive shaft bearing. The oil you see flowing is the d/s lube. There are two ball valves operated by those solenoid levers you are looking at. If the ball valves are not doing their job, no shift. You can't get at them without total teardown, but an oil change might flush out some crud. But don't count on it. There is a piston in the oil pump assembly that is moved according to the flow determined by the ball valves. Position of the piston determines the position of the shifter clutch dog. Crud, dirt, and metal chips jam between the piston and bore of the pump, locking it up. There is a screen that is supposed to keep crud out of the piston, but very fine stuff manages to find its way through the screen and it it is very fine stuff that is small enough to fit in the clearance around the piston. That is probably what you will find wrong in there. Also, excisive wear of the pump bore and piston from cruddy oil will require a new oil pump assy. I'd hate to even ask what that costs.

It is possible to get the gearcase apart and back together without special tools and use of some inginuity. A couple of slide hammers will remove the bearing carrier and oil pump. There is a very large snap ring that requires a very large snap ring tool. A drive shaft socket is required to properly torque the nut on the pinion gear. Removal and installation of some bearings and seals require special drivers.

Is it worth it? Your decision.

 

[100es72r]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

If you decide to tear it down, please get a manual. It seems straight forward but I learned the hard way and had to buy a new pump cap because I did not know to remove the solenoids and rod before I tried to pull the pump. $100 down the toilet. $28.00 for the book would have been a good investment. If you like mechanical things, it is very interesting to see how the lower unit shifts. Think of it as a learning experience and part of the "hobby" of boating. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

J

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Found a 55 hp lower unit on Ebay:

Here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/John...19QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWINQ3aPOST0Q3aRECOQ3aBIN

To refresh memory or if I haven't already listed my motor's specs: 72 Johnson 50 HP electric start, longshaft, electric shift - 50esl72c

I have no idea what year this lower unit is (the one on Ebay) but they look pretty darn similar. I went to the Johnson site and looked and there are no 55 hp motors in 72, the closest I found was a 69. What are the chances that this will bolt up and work with my motor.

 

[F_R]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I would be very cautious. That probably is a 1968-69. I can't give you a definite yes or no withoud doing a lot of research, but I would lean toward no.

 

[F_R]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

I would be very cautious. That probably is a 1968-69. I can't give you a definite yes or no withoud doing a lot of research, but I would lean toward no. There is a parts book at http://epc.brp.com/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=E if you want to research it yurself.

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Found a lower unit off a 72 evinrude 50 HP electric shift, guy says it works perfect. I'm waiting to hear back if it's a longshaft or short.

The part numbers on the Johnson/Evinrude site are exactly the same for the gear casing/assembly so I assume it will work.

If I can verify that it's a longshaft, is there anything else I should know? If it's not a long shaft, can I swap out the shafts without too much trouble?

 

[robtown]

Re: 72 johnson 50 hp electric shift - no neutral

Bought it fairly cheep... Installed it, so far looks promising. It shifts to neutral and reverse when turning over by starter. Tomorrow muffs, the next day the lake.