59 elgin questions

[vwfan79]

I have been working on this 59 elgin and i runs good for a a while (about 30-40 min) then it just seems to peter out. I can't tell if it is starving for fuel and getting to much when it does this. I replaced most of the fuel lines cleaned the carb and the pump. The diaphram in the pump looks a little worn and stretched but everything else looks good. Once it is warmed up and has petered out take a minute to restart it and if I let it sit it will start back up and run for a bit then stall out again. I pulled the lower end and checked the impellers and cleanerd up the water pump and that all looks good. Is there a thermostat that would kill the engine if it gets to hot, maybe its not pumping water as good as I thought.

Any suggestions would be great, Thanks Nick

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 59 elgin questions

I have been working on this 59 elgin and i runs good for a a while (about 30-40 min) then it just seems to peter out. I can't tell if it is starving for fuel and getting to much when it does this. I replaced most of the fuel lines cleaned the carb and the pump. The diaphram in the pump looks a little worn and stretched but everything else looks good. Once it is warmed up and has petered out take a minute to restart it and if I let it sit it will start back up and run for a bit then stall out again. I pulled the lower end and checked the impellers and cleanerd up the water pump and that all looks good. Is there a thermostat that would kill the engine if it gets to hot, maybe its not pumping water as good as I thought.

Nick---you'll be much more successful getting answers if you provide us something to work with---like a model #!

Engines vary a lot but if the water from the tell-tale is uncomfortably hot to hold your hand in the stream then it's not cooling properly.

To see if you're getting sufficient fuel flow pull the line from the carb loose and allow it to run into a clear glass container for a while. If not you need to look upstream. If there's plenty of flow you need to look at the carb.

 

[vwfan79]

Re: 59 elgin questions

Oh ok, well here is the model number 574 60421

The tell-tale is where the water and exhaust are exiting from just above the water line?

Nick

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 59 elgin questions

<Oh ok, well here is the model number 574 60421>

It must be above 30 HP as my under 30 manual admits to no such #. Maybe someone else can weigh in.

<The tell-tale is where the water and exhaust are exiting from just above the water line?>

Since I'm not familiar with the specific motor I can only tell that sounds right.

 

[vwfan79]

Re: 59 elgin questions

Ya my motor is a 40hp and I know Sears switch manufacturers in the middle of 59 and I think my #s match to McCulloch. I tested the pump and lines by pulling the fuel line off the carb and checking for good flow, which I have, so I'm guessing its the carb. My carb is a Carter model N, I cleaned it out and still same deal.

Does anyone know where to get a rebuild kit for this carb? Carter Model N
Also does anyone know the correct fuel mixture, I read somewhere 32:1
I also just read not to use the marine rated 2-cycle oil, will this damage the engine? Cause I used some of that in the last tank of gas, enough that the gas is blueish, and this is when it started having this problem real bad. It kinda did it for a a bit before, but now its worse.
I hope it didn't ruin it!

Thanks for any and all help
Nick

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 59 elgin questions

<Does anyone know where to get a rebuild kit for this carb? Carter Model N>

Er---have you tried Carter? Frankly carb kits are seldom needed. Gaskets can be made from bulk gasket material from any auto parts counter and float needles and seats are usually available as separate items. Old cork floats can be rejuvenated by cleaning, drying and re-coating with model airplane dope, thin superglue or thinned epoxy.

<I also just read not to use the marine rated 2-cycle oil, will this damage the engine?>

That's simply insane! I think you'd better review that article!
If there's anything better than TCW-3 oil for outboards surely it would be the talk at every marina and outboard forum worldwide!

<Cause I used some of that in the last tank of gas, enough that the gas is blueish, and this is when it started having this problem real bad. It kinda did it for a a bit before, but now its worse.>

Coincidence! You have some sort of progressive fuel delivery problem. You said that you 'replaced most of the fuel lines'. It's time to finish that job. Then inspect the fuel system for dirty filters or clogs (especially loose bits that could inhibit full fuel flow intermittently) from tank to carb. After that another carb cleaning (more complete!) is in order.

 

[vwfan79]

Re: 59 elgin questions

The oil thing I read on another forum, they said that the TCW-3 is too thin for these old outboards, and to use regular 2-cycle oil such that you would use in a chain saw or weed whacker.

I didn't realize Carter was still around. I am new to the whole boat repair scene, I have lots of auto experience though. When I did a search for Carter I didn't see anything about the Carter com[any per say.

Thanks for all the advice, the carb is coming off today for close inspection and cleaning.

Nick

 

[vwfan79]

Re: 59 elgin questions

Ok I removed the carb and pulled it apart, the float valve, I think is what it is called, is sticking. I tried cleaning it but it is still sticking, it is pretty well varnished from sitting for so many years.

I still haven't found any kind of website for CARTER, so any suggestion on where to get a new one of these. It's the little valve type deal the float closes as it moves up and down. It closes and then doesn't want to slide back down to let fuel in.

Thanks

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 59 elgin questions

Ok I removed the carb and pulled it apart, the float valve, I think is what it is called, is sticking. I tried cleaning it but it is still sticking, it is pretty well varnished from sitting for so many years.

I still haven't found any kind of website for CARTER, so any suggestion on where to get a new one of these. It's the little valve type deal the float closes as it moves up and down. It closes and then doesn't want to slide back down to let fuel in.

I'm not a good computer searcher---hopefully someone who is will speak up.

Often needles and seats were used by numerous manufacturers. That's one route to try but a parts motor may be in your future.

In extreme cases where I could find no replacement from any source I have been able to rejuvenate metal needles and seats by VERY lightly lapping them with something mildly abrasive like Mothers Mag & Alum. Polish. I do NOT recommend it except as a last resort as the chances of ruining them completely are as good as fixing them! From your description of varnish deposits I think a thorough cleaning might cure the problem.

 

[F_R]

Re: 59 elgin questions

"Carter Model N" is pretty useless information. "model N" carburetors were used for a long time, even on lawn mowers. But the lawn mower version was nothing like the 40hp outboard version.

Whatever the case, you will find that it is pretty obsolete. Try www.laingsoutboards.com as a possible maybe source.

 

[Super Sportster]

Re: 59 elgin questions

http://www.discount-marine-parts.com/carb_carter.html

 

[vwfan79]

Re: 59 elgin questions

"Carter Model N" is pretty useless information. "model N" carburetors were used for a long time, even on lawn mowers. But the lawn mower version was nothing like the 40hp outboard version.

What more do you need, the part I'm looking for is same no matter the application, a Model N float valve is a Model N float vale. As for what I have seen most small engine Carter carbs use the same float valve.

Tom- A parts motor, what do you mean?

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 59 elgin questions

<What more do you need, the part I'm looking for is same no matter the application, a Model N float valve is a Model N float vale. As for what I have seen most small engine Carter carbs use the same float valve.>

When FR tells you something you can depend on it! He's a walking encyclopedia on old outboards and how to keep them healthy so check your assumptions any time Frank suggests you might be mistaken!

<Tom- A parts motor, what do you mean?>

Another motor of the same model from which you can get parts no longer available. An Antique Outboard Club meet is the place to find them at affordable prices. Check the AOMCI events calender for a meet near you.

<http://www.aomci.org/events/>

 

[vwfan79]

Re: 59 elgin questions

I wasn't making assumptions, all the carb websites I found state that Carter Model Ns all use the same float valve and Kohler carbs models K91 thru K301, K321, K341, and K482, M8-12 use that same float valve. But anyhow I do appreciate all the help and info and I did get the part ordered.

As for the parts motor, I thought for some reason you were saying that my motor may end up being a parts motor. Thanks for the info on where to find one I was wanted to find one just to have around in case something happens.

Thanks for all the help,
Nick