50's Johnson 15 hp

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Hello, my uncle gave me a 50's model sea-horse 15hp motor, he bought it new, I forget the exact yr but could recheck it. <br /><br />I have not been able to get it to fire at all. <br />I checked the spark, both plugs seem to fire very hot. I have tried priming through the plug holes with gas mix, made sure that the bowl and lines seemed clear and clean, no cracks etc. I have not checked the compression with a gauge, but it seems strong.<br /><br /> My uncle said the motor always ran great, and that he always drained all fuel out before storing motor. <br /><br />I know that it is likely that the fuel system really needs going through, but I am just not understanding why I cannot even get a hit at all?
 

Xcusme

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Max,<br />Welcome to iboats! If your motor hasn't been run for a few years, it's best to do some preliminary checks before you get her running. Check the lower unit lube for signs of water intrusion and replace the fluid. Drop the lower unit and replace the water pump impeller. This is a must, old impellers can break apart and the pieces can block the cooling system. Remove the carb and install a rebuild kit. Be sure to clean out all passageways with spray carb cleaner and blow out with compressed air, then reassemble with new parts. Do a compression test to get a baseline reading. Using a harmonic balancer puller, remove the flywheel, and inspect the ignition system to include the coils,points, and condensers. If the coils are cracked, replace them , they,re cheap. Cracked coils can show good spark when the plugs are out of the head , but break down under compression. They can arc to ground, killing the spark to the plugs when they heat up too.<br /><br />Try spraying fuel mix directly into the carb throat and see if it pops. If it runs for a few seconds and quits, this points to a fuel delivery problem. Check carb, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel lines , clamps etc.<br /><br />All of the normal maintanence procedures are clearly outlined in a service manual for your motor. The link at the bottom of this web page will provide info on ordering a manual.<br /><br />Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress. With proper care, that motor will outlive you.
 

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Thanks Xcusme, you may have pointed me in the right direction. I took off the flywheel, and yes the coils are very cracked and worn, practically falling apart even. I have to admit that I didn't expect this, since there was strong spark when the plugs were out of the motor. <br /><br />I am looking for replacement parts (condensors, coils, and carb kit) for this motor which is a model FDE-10 (I think that means 1956). <br /><br />Any suggestion where to get these old replacement parts is appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks again for the great advice!
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Iboats, or NAPA autoparts have the coils and points and condensors pretty cheap:<br />18-5181 - 1 x coil. (OEM PN 584477)<br />18-5006 - 2 breakers, 2 condensors, 2 "JC" clips, and capsule of grease (in leiu of a proper wick). (OEM PN 172521)<br /><br />You can also the OEM equivalent of those from your local Johnny/Rude dealer. Although NAPA also has a carb kit for your engine, try to get the OEM one. It comes with a plastic float to replace the troublesome cork one that's doubtless still in your carb and it's only a couple bucks more. The OEM PN for the carb kit is 439071.<br /><br />Although the 19.94 CID 15hp engines were made from '53 to '56, they were ressurected later on in the 15hp Evinrude "WorkTwin" and Johnson "Workhorse" commercial engines through the '60s.<br />Fuel/Oil mix is 24:1 87 octane gas to TC-W3 rated outboard oil.<br />Spark plugs are Champion J6C (were J6J) gapped at .030"<br />Lower unit oil is OMC/BRP 'HiVis' or (commonly available) SAE 90/80W outboard gearcase oil.<br /><br /> FD-10<br />From the Old OMC Site
 

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Thanks for the help. I took the head off and things look ok, no scoring, low carbon, could be a good running engine when I get it all sorted out. Alot of scaly looking whitish deposits in the water passages, is that any cause for concern?<br /><br />The paint is fairly rough, is that old "holiday bronze" available anywhere? Just in case I get really motivated and want to make it look new again.
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

The white stuff is calcium carbonate deposits. Seawater particularly has a lot of calcium carbonate in it since this is what shellfish shells are made out of. Interestingly, it's one of the few substances that tend to precipitate out of water when it's hot. So that's why it ends up all over the inside of the cooling passages. On inboard marine engines that are derived from auto engines, they use a lower temperature thermostat to help keep those deposits from forming.<br />Scrape out as much of it as possible. It clogs up the passages and insulates the bores & head. A wire brush can be helpful, but don't scar the gasket surfaces!<br /><br />Holiday Bronze is still available:<br /><br />Antique Outboard Paint
 

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Hello, thanks for the information you guys gave me. <br /><br />I installed new coils, points, and condensors, cleaned carb and installed kit, put it all back together (I hope correctly), and tried to start it. Whenever I prime directly into the spark plug holes, it will run for 1 to 3 seconds, then quit. If i prime directly into the carb, nothing happens. <br /><br />I have not found a pressurized gas tank to buy yet, I just assumed that I could at least get the motor to run with this newer one line tank. Does it really need to have the constant pressure to even start, or should I be looking for some other trouble?
 

petrolhead

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Messages
614
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

The motor has no fuel pump, so it needs some means of feeding fuel to the carb. You could achieve this by mounting a temporary tank higher than the carb so that it's gravity fed.<br />Did you actually strip and clean the carb, or just flush it through? Are you priming the carb with the throttle flap open?
 

fireman57

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,811
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Those pressure tanks are still available used. The problem is I have seen them sell for as high as 100.00. You can probably buy one right on ebay. I just sold a '57 35hp burnt maroon with a tank in perfect condition for 250.00.
 

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Petrolhead, I took apart and cleaned the carb piece by piece, and rebuilt it with a new kit, including float. I did not think to adjust the float level, but read on iboats that you have to check that, I guess that could be causing trouble now.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

(Carburetor Float Setting)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /> <br />With the carburetor body held upside down, the float being viewed from the side, adjust the float so that the free end of the float (the end opposite the hinge pin) is ever so slightly higher (just ever so slightly off level) than the other end. And when viewed from the end, make sure it is not cocked.
 

Xcusme

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Max,<br />Just a thought...when you removed the head, did you re-use the head gasket or replace with new?? Did you do a compression test before you started working on the old girl??<br /><br />Handy info ...(Thanks AGAIN Joe)<br /><br />Depending on which carb you have, pick one of the following.<br /><br />(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)<br /><br />Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.<br /><br />Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8<br />turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to<br />respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to<br />where the engine will just stay running.<br /><br />Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back<br />(sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4<br />turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.<br /><br />When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move<br />them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you<br />would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.<br />--------------------------------------------------<br />(Carburetor Adjustments - Two Adjustable N/Vs)<br /><br />Initial settings are: Bottom high speed = seat gently, then open 1 turn out. Top slow<br />speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.<br /><br />Setting the high and low needle valves properly:<br /><br />NOTE: For engines that DO NOT have a shift selection, obviously there is no<br />NEUTRAL position. Simply lower the rpms to the lowest setting to obtain the low<br />speed needle valve adjustment.<br /><br />(High Speed) Start engine (it will run pretty rough), shift into forward gear, take up to<br />full throttle. In segments of 1/8 turn, waiting for the engine to respond between turns,<br />start turning in the bottom high speed needle valve. You'll reach a point whereas the<br />engine will either start to die out or spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that<br />point, back out the needle valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the<br />smoothest setting.<br /><br />(Low Speed) Slow the engine down to where it just stays running. Shift into neutral.<br />Again in segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the top needle valve in. Wait a few<br />seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase.<br />Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit<br />the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back. Again, at that point,<br />back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed<br />setting.<br /><br />When you have finished the above adjustments, you will have no reason to move<br />them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you<br />would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.<br /><br />--------------------<br />Joe (30+ Years With OMC)
 

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

I did reuse the old head gasket, cleaned it up and it looked ok, I was just hoping that compression would still be ok. I could not find my compression gauge but the engine seems to have good stiff compression when I turn the engine over, and the cylinder walls seemed pretty good when I inspected them (I know thats unscientific). I am trying to fix this old thing on the cheap, at least until I can determine if its worth buying parts for. Probably I shoot myself in the foot all the time by taking shortcuts.
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

It's gotta be the carb - if it runs a couple seconds on gasoline dumped into the cylinders, it must still be getting air from somewhere. Unless there's holes knocked in the sides of the crankcase, it's got to be via the carb.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
7
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

my evinrude would not run long without a LOT of pressure in the tank. Gravity fed did not supply enough fuel to run long. Also, my evinrude dealer supplied me with a carb kit that included a "troublesome" cork float. Do they even bother to make plastic floats for the older models?
 

Max_Door

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
35
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

I finally had some more time to tinker with this old motor, and it seems to be running great( thanks largely to the info you guys gave me). It is pretty neat, that 50 yr old motor running about like new, after all the years of use and then storage! I can't get a lawnmower to last 7 years...
 

Chinewalker

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: 50's Johnson 15 hp

Hi Max,<br /> I actually kinda like the Holiday Bronze of '56. I have a '56 5.5, 7.5, 10, 15 and several 30s. Great running motors from that era and well worth investing a little bit to keep them going. <br /> Did you find a tank for your motor? Drop me a line - might be able to help you out...<br />- Scott<br />csr112-nATprodigy.net
 
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