5.0 w/Alpha 1 Gen 2 - Trim and engine cut out / shifting issues

[sikemd]

I have a 93 23' Chaparral cuddy. I bought it 2 years ago so I don't know much about the maintenance history.

The trim issue... It trims up just fine but will not trim down at all. Currently it is all the way up. Since I've owned the boat I've had intermittent trim issues but usually 'fixed itself' after short periods of time and / or cruising around.

The pump sounds fine, fluid is pretty low but there is still fluid in the reservoir. I've never checked the fluid before so I'm not sure if it has dropped or not since I've owned it but I'm going to assume it has over time. I was told intermittent trim issues is usually related to the cylinders themselves, but I'd rather not spend money that I do not have to. What would be a good way to troubleshoot this, or should I just go ahead and replace both cylinders? I've also read it could possibly be a check valve in the line or pump or potentially the limit switch on the outdrive. I don't believe it is related to the limit switch. I'll note the steel braided lines going to the cylinders look pretty bad, the steel is starting to shred but I don't believe the inner hose(s) are damaged.

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The engine fired up first try this year, we put it in the water and was ready to take it to my slip but it would cut out immediately when put into gear, both ways. I've been told and I am pretty confident this is related to the lower shift cable. I tinkered with the adjustment a little bit, the best result I had gotten was being able to put it into forward normally but with that setting it would grind horribly in reverse, the prop would still spin but it definitely wasn't right. I tried a few different settings and got grinding in both directions until I got to the point where it would go into forward and grind in reverse then I gave up. Hoping I didn't make things worse with the grinding. Shifting does feel pretty tight as well, but I'm not sure if it's any tighter than it has always been.

Also when I first put it into the water and was attempting to move it to my slip, when it was cutting out. The last time it cut out the engine wouldn't start at all, it didn't even seem like it was trying to fire at all after many attempts. I'm going to take a guess that the issue was related to the cut out switch on the shift assembly. I tinkered around the switch and got it running again a few days later.

In conclusion... I believe I'm definitely going to install a new shift cable, while I am there I'm guessing it would only make sense to put in a new gimble bearing and bellows. Should I just go ahead and replace the trim cylinders and lines while I'm at it? I ask because I'm not sure if these are a regular maintenance item or not. If they don't typically go bad I'd rather not waste money replacing them and would prefer to troubleshoot which, if either, has gone bad.

 

[tlewis1]

Go with the trouble shooting route on the trim issue...no sense in replacing cylinders when they don't need it. Cylinders rarely fail, it would be the seals inside. Your issue is likely more related to the pump or the electrical on the pump. What happens when you hit the trim down button...do you here a 'clicking' or does the motor sound just as it does for the trim up?

The shifting issue is pretty straight forward if you follow the shift cable adjustment procedural in the manual. There is also a great video on YouTube somewhere about the proper adjustments. Start with seeing if the cable has to much play in it, in which case it will need to be changed.

As for the gimball bearing and bellows, obviously check them both thoroughly while the drive is off and also have a good look at your u joints. If they appear ok then just leave them...

 

[sikemd]

Much appreciated reply.

Go with the trouble shooting route on the trim issue...no sense in replacing cylinders when they don't need it. Cylinders rarely fail, it would be the seals inside. Your issue is likely more related to the pump or the electrical on the pump. What happens when you hit the trim down button...do you here a 'clicking' or does the motor sound just as it does for the trim up?.

It sounds pretty much just like going up, as if it is working or trying at least. Hard to explain but it sounds less stressed, obviously because its not actually doing anything but it pretty much sounds like what it normally sounds like when the trimming has hit its max point. Any ideas where I should start?

The shifting issue is pretty straight forward if you follow the shift cable adjustment procedural in the manual. There is also a great video on YouTube somewhere about the proper adjustments. Start with seeing if the cable has to much play in it, in which case it will need to be changed..

Well I was having the cut out issue prior to tinkering with the adjustments. It was fine last year, so this issue arose while sitting over the winter and I'm pretty sure the adjustment hasn't changed since I last had it on the water which leads me to believe the cable was probably on its way out last year and has hit the end of it's lifespan but I will try do a proper inspection/adjustment rather than just randomly adjusting like I was. This warm weather is making me impatient and overly impulsive... I need to work on my patience here before I end up doing something stupid.

I already ordered a gimball / bellow kit but since you've suggested not replacing them unless they are bad perhaps I'll either just hold on to them or return them if they don't need replacing. Looking at the bellows through the bell housing they appear to be in good shape. I just figured I'd replace them all since while I had the drive off since they it's fairly cheap and easy to replace while I'd be back there but I'd certainly rather not waste the time or money replacing something that doesn't need replacing. I haven't had any noticeable signs of gimball wear but if I do go to replace the cable I'll certainly inspect everything.

 

[Bondo]

I just figured I'd replace them all since while I had the drive off since they it's fairly cheap and easy to replace while I'd be back there but

Ayuh,.... When goin' in that deep, I replace all the rubber parts, unless I Know they were New less than 4 years ago,...

For the trim, have a Heavy friend jump on the outdrive, while yer holdin' the Down button,... It'll go down, 'n work right again,...

When ya trim Full Up, 'n ya hear the pump go into hard labor, it's in overload,...
Ya should tap the down button a couple times to unload the valves, so it don't get struck Up, like yer's,...

Once down to trim, the prop thrust will easily push it full down,...

When boatin' in the brine, I hear the outer seal glands corrode, 'n sea-life get's in there, also causin' them to bind up,....
Never seen it in freshwater,....

 

[sikemd]

Ayuh,.... When goin' in that deep, I replace all the rubber parts, unless I Know they were New less than 4 years ago,...

For the trim, have a Heavy friend jump on the outdrive, while yer holdin' the Down button,... It'll go down, 'n work right again,...

When ya trim Full Up, 'n ya hear the pump go into hard labor, it's in overload,...
Ya should tap the down button a couple times to unload the valves, so it don't get struck Up, like yer's,...

Once down to trim, the prop thrust will easily push it full down,...

When boatin' in the brine, I hear the outer seal glands corrode, 'n sea-life get's in there, also causin' them to bind up,....
Never seen it in freshwater,....

Thanks for the reply. I had my father jump on it while I was hitting the down switch with no luck, but he's only 170lbs or so... I talked to a friend who is a marine mechanic and he suggested just as you did... he said my father isn't big enough that I need someone heavier just like you suggested. lol. I'll find someone a bit heavier to hop on it for me and pray I can get 'er down enough to get her pushin' water.

Beyond that... I adjusted the lower shift cable and got it shifting properly into forward and reverse but I guess the cable is pretty well stretched. I had to max out the adjustment on the pin stud the cable connects to, it's all the way up. I'm going to try to get one more season out of it (unless I'm told otherwise) and replace it during the down season next year hoping it makes it that far. But now at least if I have an issue while I'm on the water I'll know how to adjust it to get what I need out of it to get home.

 

[Bondo]

Beyond that... I adjusted the lower shift cable

Ayuh,.... Ya can't properly adjust the shift cable at Full Tilt,....

The cable, 'n a few other things bind, Badly at Full Tilt,....

That's why ya never run the motor at any point above Trim,...

 

[sikemd]

Ayuh,.... Ya can't properly adjust the shift cable at Full Tilt,....

The cable, 'n a few other things bind, Badly at Full Tilt,....

That's why ya never run the motor at any point above Trim,...

Argh... I didn't even consider that. Should I losen it up or disconnect it before I try to lower it again? When I get it down I'll readjust it, maybe it isn't as stretched as I thought or... maybe it's worse?

 

[sikemd]

So, it ended up being the cylinders. They were both totally locked up solid.

Anyhow I got new cylinders and put them on. Now the new ones are acting sparatic, and unusable in their current state. I suspect air in the lines but not quite sure. Both directions, sometimes it will move, sometimes it won't. Going up most of the time it goes just a little bit then jams up entirely and the pump will stop making noise. Going down, sometimes it goes, sometimes it doesn't. The pump never stops when I am pushing down though, whether the ram is moving or not.

Any suggestions? How do I go about bleeding the lines? I've read to remove the 'up line' from the cylinders and keep running the pump up until no more air is coming out. I'm not sure which line would be the 'up line' though... my guess would be the rear line?

 

[Bt Doctur]

there basically self bleeding remove the aft pin/connection .let them hang down and cycle the cylinders once or twice.
If you havent thrown them out I`pay shipping

 

[sikemd]

aft pin/connection? and what do you mean by cycle? just run it up for a few seconds and then down for a few seconds? I've tried running it up and down many times and it randomly works or doesn't work. and I do still have the old ones, if you pay shipping you can have them.

 

[Bt Doctur]

"cycle" run them fully out , check oil level. Run them fully in , check oil level, run them out , check oil , run them in
"aft" where the rams connect to the outdrive not the transom

 

[sikemd]

Ahhh... Ok thanks that makes sense. Didn't think to run them without being connected maybe they will go all the way in and out when disconnected.