460 cobra spun bearing?

theguy5000

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I got my motor rebuild at the end of last season and worked good but this year I only had it out twice first time was underpowered and did some tuning and the next day had same problems but when docking started to hear a pinging and pulled the motor out abd dropped the oil pan theirs filings and 5 and 6 connecting rods have bad play so could that be my only problem or is the cam and everything ruined again what do I look for? When coming in I still had 40 psi of oil pressure
 

81 Checkmate

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Did you rebuild it or someone else? Not much of a Ford guy, but was it side to side play or up and down? If the crank's not scored you might get by with new bearings. youd have to flush the motor very well to get all the metal shavings out.
 

theguy5000

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460 marine vs auto swap

I have a 1990 four wins that the crank bearings went out on and the only motor I can find is out of 1991 Ford Truck F350 and the site only tells me 7.5,HOP25/45,COMP120/130,12-14-1 0 140,908--km--
I'm not sure what it all means but I am wondering what's the difference on the marine cam to a truck cam and are their any sutable that I can just replace with swaping internal parts cause I'm not sure if the cam survive out of my boat yet
 

HT32BSX115

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I got my motor rebuild at the end of last season and worked good but this year I only had it out twice .....................dropped the oil pan theirs filings and 5 and 6 connecting rods have bad play so could that be my only problem or is the cam and everything ruined again what do I look for? When coming in I still had 40 psi of oil pressure

Only out twice is not really an example of "Worked Good"...................Your problem is that you have a destroyed engine........ metal "filings" in the oil and "bad play" in the rod bearings point to a very "bad" rebuild.

I would expect to have to either polish or grind the crank and replace the rod and main bearings, cam, bearings and followers, oil pump, and have the block closely checked for to see if it needs to be line bored etc........... (and maybe find a different rebuilder if your current one won't take care of it completely for no charge............)

You should also be making a decision about even staying with the 460 and Cobra drive. At some point you're going to have realize that you have an engine and drive package that was only made for about 3 years and when OMC went out of business, the after market didn't pick up all the marine specific replacement parts like the exhaust manifolds, coupler and certain show stopper parts in that drive.

If you haven't replaced your exhaust manifolds, and you don't have replacements ready to put on when your current ones "go", you should find some now.

There are a few parts in that drive that if they fail, you cannot buy them (new)................You'll either have to have some machine shop make one-off parts or find used parts.

If your drive is in good shape, you can sell it (I sold mine for $1450 in 2005.........I suspect it's worth at least that much still and maybe more)

If your coupler goes, you could damage your flywheel housing ..............I sold my flywheel housing and inner transom plate to a guy that had his coupler disintegrate.......his insurance company was going to "total" the boat because he couldn't find a flywheel housing (new or used)

If your manifolds either crack or get too rusty to use, you have to either find new(old stock) or get after market stainless steel hand made jacketed manifolds. .......There still doesn't appear to be anyone making 460 cast iron manifolds and when you can find them they're ridiculously expensive............ {there are supposed to be adapters out there so you can use GM BBC manifolds but I never could find them when I was looking} Hardin Marine has aluminum manifold kits now but they don't claim to be a direct Cobra fit.........

The best part of your engine and drive package is the 460. They're GREAT engines, very reliable and easy to find parts for (except marine ex manifolds) and rebuild (if done right.........yours wasn't)

Bottom line............if you want to get right back on water for the rest of the Summer, go find a wrecking yard "truck" 460, bolt on your carb, manifolds, coupler, etc and go boating...............AND.....

If I wanted to keep the boat, I'd start looking now for either a Volvo Penta or Mercruiser BBC+ drive to replace during the winter.


Regards,

Rick
 

theguy5000

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So is their a big difference between the marine and truck motor I know it's the same block but what's the difference on cam and the valve springs? Or anything else
 

HT32BSX115

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Not much difference at all. Marine camshafts are quite similar to truck/RV camshafts. Maximum torque is produced well below 5000 RPM. OMC rated the max RPM at 4800. (When mine would only turn about 4000 or so, I discovered that I had several nearly flat lobes)

If you decide to get a truck 460, just make sure that you use the marine type starter, alternator and distributor from your current engine. You might also need to use your flywheel too.
 

Bondo

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Ayuh,..... I donno 'bout the swapability of BBFs by vintage changes, But,....

Swappin' in a truck motor, there's no need to open it up,...

Just swap 'em, Long Block, for Long Block,....
 

skippy2235

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I had the same issue. I was afraid to talk with engine builder. But I did it anyway. He WARRANTY the entire long block again.
He had to replace, crank, some valves, lifters, ect.
All I had to pay for was oil, and gaskets, and my labor.
I also replaced the oil pan and pickup with a truck engine and messured the capacity with water, found that 5 qts. is not enough for marine engines with truck pans.
I am using 7 qts of oil with no issues.
Also make sure you use oil with zinc in an older engine with hydraulic lifters.
Yes truck cams are interchangable with marine. Get a cam with max Torque and HP under 5000 RPM. I chose a crane cam with 4200 RPM and Torque.
 

HT32BSX115

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I got my boat from my brother who bought the 460 powered FourWinns Liberator new.

He had the engine rebuilt in the early 90's and a few years later started using Slick-50 in it. I suspect the Snake oil facilitated the camshaft destruction along with running it at 5000+ RPM all the time! When I got it, it would only turn about 4000rpm.

Tore it apart because I had water in a couple of cyls from leaking riser gaskets. The further into the engine I got the worse it looked.

I was going to have a local rebuilder do the engine and when I couldn't buy new manifolds or a coupler, I started looking for alternatives.
 

theguy5000

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Well if my engine builder doesn't do anything I'm kinda thinking about the motor swap to something more common like a chev 350 but I'd have to change the leg and since a rebuild and and 460 are getting hard to find I'm out of the water this year but what are the chances to find a new leg and if I stay with the Omc leg and 460 next year any legs that work with a 460?
 

HT32BSX115

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Well if my engine builder doesn't do anything I'm kinda thinking about the motor swap to something more common like a chev 350 but I'd have to change the leg and since a rebuild and and 460 are getting hard to find I'm out of the water this year but what are the chances to find a new leg and if I stay with the Omc leg and 460 next year any legs that work with a 460?

No. You have the only drive that "works" with the 460. You shouldn't have any problem finding a 460 truck engine. That thing was produced from for nearly 30 years in carbureted and EFI

The jet boat people still use them and they're VERY popular. Your only problem is the manifolds and drive.

If your manifolds/risers are "ok" and the coupler is ok, you should be able to bolt any truck 460 in there. Just go to a pickup wrecking yard and get one.

Remove everything down to the block and heads. Use your starter, ALT, DIST, manifolds, carb etc on the "new" engine. Put it all back together. You'll be fine.

What kind of boat is this? How big, length, wt etc?


Do you have vertical drive problems too?
 
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theguy5000

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It's a Four winns sundowner 225 20.5 footer and I haven't had any problems with the leg the when it worked good on the water was breaking it in but hit 45 mph with a 17 pitch prop engaged nice and smooth just didn't have the trim control sensor working but legs off now have to take a look but might be out of the water for the winter now can't find a motor
 

theguy5000

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Now I know Ford changed the crank in 79 from internal balanced to externally balanced the Omc cuppler will it work on an older motor?
 

HT32BSX115

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It's a Four winns sundowner 225 20.5 footer and I haven't had any problems with the leg the when it worked good on the water was breaking it in but hit 45 mph with a 17 pitch prop engaged nice and smooth just didn't have the trim control sensor working but legs off now have to take a look but might be out of the water for the winter now can't find a motor

17p might be a tad low. When I had my 460/KC (FourWinns 211 LIb) I was running a 19p cupped/repitched to 20 (3blade SS) and it performed better. I also have a 17p SS 3-blade for a spare...but only ran it once....too low a pitch....................Even with the slightly higher 20p, it would still turn 5000 (60mph) when it was running right.

What year model engine/drive is it? (it's not EFI and/or electronic IGN is it?)
 

HT32BSX115

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1990 460 cobra carb and I switched to electronic ign when I rebuild the motor
That means you either got an electronic dist or went to a Pertronix ignitor etc?

If it's a 1990 model engine, It would have had electronic IGN......(OMC Spitfire IGN........a real nightmare now since few if any parts are available especially the ignition module)

If the engine originally had a distributor with points and condensor, it's either a 1989 model or someone changed it.

Boat manufacturers frequently use "last years" engine/drive in their boats. So it you have a 90 boat, it's very possible that you have an 89 engine. (the model number will reveal what it is.


460AMLMED 1989
460APRMED 1989
754APEPWS 1990


Consider yourself lucky if you have a 1989 and/or a regular distributor.


If you go to a wrecking yard that has pickups, you should be able to find find an 80's Ford F250/350 etc

Found the following on the Ford-Trucks Forum
460 weighted spacer introduced midyear 1979 on F100/350's and Econolines. No 460 passenger cars after 1978.
There is no before/after production date or serial number break, as this was a running change.
The only way to know is by the block casting number: D9TE-6015-AB.
In addition to the weighted spacer, the harmonic balancer, crankshaft and flywheel are also different. 460 block casting numbers of D1VE-6015-AB, AB1, AB2 / C9VE, C8VE do not use a weighted spacer.

As stated above, the weighted spacer began midyear 1979, the block casting number is D9TE-6015-AB


__________________
Bill / Retired Ford Parts Manager / SoCal Chapter Member / Part number research: 1928/2001 trucks & 1928/89 passenger cars.
 
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