4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

[montauk]

I would like to hear some feedback on 2 vs 4 stroke engines in the 90 hp range. I'm looking at Suzuki, Honda, and Yamaha. I've been looking at comparative specs and to me, Suzuki seems to be a little more advanced, i.e. fuel injection, 40a alt., etc. Note: OMC's fiasco has me turned off of 2-stroke, but any input on advantages/disadvantages of 2/4 stroke will also be greatly appreciated.<br />Thanks.<br /><br />------------------

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Ahoy, Montauk. I, too, have been comparing specs, features, etc. of 90 and 100 outboards as possible repowers for my Boston Whaler Montauk.<br /><br />I really like the idea of a 4 stroke. They are relatively smooth and quiet, easy starting, clean and efficient. I hear some people say that they lack the mid-rpm torque of a good 2 stroke. Unfortunately, they are heavy and expensive. Like you, I was attracted to the Suzuki until I realized how much extra weight the F.I. added. I don't really want to go over about 350# on the transom, so all except the Yammy F100 were disqualified unless I wanted to drop down to the 50-70 range. The Yamaha is still near the top of my list. Haven't investigated Honda yet, but have heard rumblings about service and parts.<br /><br />I have looked at a lot of really good 2 strokes. My son has a Merc 90 on his Montauk. Good motor. Yamaha's 90 is very attractive, as is Johnson's (doesn't have the FICHT F.I.). The Evinrude FICHT 90 doesn't have the horror-story history of the 200 and 225, but I am still shy of it.<br /><br />I go to some far backwoods places to fish, and availability of a dealer is important. I feel confident I can find an OMC, Yamaha or Mercury dealer almost anywhere (in that order, by the way), So my list, at present reads: Yamaha F100, Yamaha 90, Johnson 90.<br /><br />I would appreciate your thoughts on what you have found. Perhaps you have noticed something I haven't.<br />Happy Boating, Keep your line wet.<br />JB

 

[montauk]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Thanks for the reply, JB. Put this in your pipe and smoke it:<br />4 Strokes: Suzuki DF90 - 416lb, Yamaha F100 - 356lb, Honda BF90 - 373 lb. That averages out to @ 90 lbs more than the average 2 stroke. My inquiries have found there to be @ $2,000 additional hard-earned dollars required to have all the additional benefits (and weight!) of a 4-stroke. The most appealing of these to are great fuel efficiency and relative quiteness - as a fellow fish hunter I'm sure you can appreciate both. <br />2 Strokes: The Johnson 60 degree V4 is the muscle car on the water. Displacement comes in @ 105 cubic inches - Yammy and Suzy both are @ 70ci, and good 'ole Merc at a respectable 85. All of that torque-talk aside, I'm not very concerned with out of the hole power - I'm looking for a motor that will give me as little trouble as possible - but when something does go wrong, I'd like be able to get service from more than just one dealer (=OMC). <br /><br />I know that info is pretty generalized, but maybe someone else out there can enlighten us. How about some of you midrange 4-stroke owners out there - any griefs?<br /><br />Take Care,<br />The Flats Wader (for now!)

 

[mtp]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Ok, maybe I can help a bit. One, I have/work with and own a combo of brands and hp's of motors (2 and 4 strokes). The 4 strokes are wonderfully quiet, great on fuel economy, have reduced emissions (lots of states are instituting required lower emissions on outboards), but depending on brand can be a problem to get "worked on"/serviced or repaired. Best bet might be to "haunt" local ramps/lifts/docks and ask around. See what kind of service local dealers/repairmen have been giving owners -speed/dependability/cost - did they honor the warranty or tell the owner "it's something you did , "not covered"<br />- been there). I moved from an area with great service for one brand, to one with marginal service (using above factors, but have found local repaiman who does wonders with 2 other makes. Sorry, service/repair reps really can be dealer dependant.

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Yo, Montauk and mtp. Thanks for the insights. I hadn't paid much attention to displacement on the 2 strokes and recognise that the Johnson 90 is a detuned 115. Mtp's comments have aroused my interest, though I wish you would name some brands, mtp.<br /><br />Back in the 60's and early 70's a lot of 16/17 Boston Whalers were sold with the 4 stroke Homelite/Bearcat 55, which couldn't have offered more than 50hp at the prop. It makes sense that they must have performed reasonably well. . . but I have no idea what sort of cruising speed they could maintain. Anyone out there know? The reason I ask is the technology level and weight of modern 4 stroke 50s makes them attractive . . .particularly the Evinrude. Does anyone out there have experience with 50 horses on a 17 Whaler Montauk?<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br />JB

 

[FISHNFF]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

I own a Whaler Alert 17 with a modified Montauk console. Same as Montauk but grey and weighs 150 lbs more. I had a 1996 Merc 75 on it and it ran fine. Topped out at almost 35 knots on the GPS and got over 4MPG of mixed ocean running. Last year I got a 2000 Merc 90 4-stroke. It will troll all day on sips of gas and gets 6.5MPG of mixed running. I got this because it was cheaper than a Yamaha but is essentially the same motor. The acceleration is fair, actually a little slower than the 75, but has pushed me to 40+ knots on the GPS. If I had to do it over again, I'd get a 70 Suzuki/Evinrude EFI 4 stroke. I have 6 friends with this motor on a Montauk and they are flawless! Compared to my Merc, they are much smoother, quieter, troll better, and are a little better on fuel. They will push the boat to 33 knots and will do it without a hint of problem. The 90 Suzuki was just too heavy. The Honda dealer is too far/expensive. Plus you don't see many out here, probably for those reasons. Fichts were out of the question for obvious reasons, but looked good. Hope this helps! Brian K.

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Thanks, fishnff. That is exactly the kind of real-world experience we needed to hear. Particularly because it is with the hull we are using.<br /><br />Keep your lines wet.<br />JB

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Hey Brian. You've got me convinced to look seriously at that EFI 70 4 stroke. My OMC dealer hasn't been able to find an Evinrude version, but the local Suzuki dealer has a Suzuki DF70. They appear to be identical. Do your friends have both, and is there a difference in performance?<br /><br />Standing by.<br />JB

 

[FISHNFF]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

They are identical. Down to using the same prop. The Evinrudes may be hard to find due to OMC's problems and no current production. At my local Whaler last week there were 3 70 Evinrudes on display, all sold. The Suzuki can be had cheaper, and currently have a $300 rebate. Too bad, cause the extra 3 year warranty (total 6) seemed a better deal. Who knows, because I only know of one (broken impeller) out of thousands of hours who had a warranty issue. The Suzuki's come with multi-function tach and prop and are about $6000-6300 from what I've seen. <br /> Brian K.

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Thanks, Brian. Now I need to do some hard negotiation. I don't exactly have numerous kilobucks burning holes in my pocket, but at least I don't have to get permission from a wife with different priorities.<br /><br />Bon Voyage,<br />JB

 

[knappb]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

I have a suzuki df-60 4 stroke on a 17 foot aluminum boat. I 've had this for two years and no problems. It runs for hours on a 19 gallon tank. ( 2 days) The only problems I've encountered are a lack of suzuki dealersa in my area.

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Well, you guys have convinced me. I got a demo of a DF70 this AM and it seems to be everything that Brian said about it, so I bought it.<br /><br />MONTAUK bought a new motor. What did you buy, Montauk??<br /><br />JB

 

[kaholo]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Hey JB, im looking at getting a suzuki df70 for my 17' whaler. i was wondering how you like yours after you've used it for a while. currently i have an old 2-stroke johnson 85hp. i will be trolling open seas mostly. is this enough power or do i need the 90hp? kaholo@kaholo.net

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs 2 stroke @ 90 hp

Aloha nui loa, Zmurgy.<br /><br />I am still thrilled with my Suzi. It is everything Fishnff said it would be, but quite a bit faster than I expected.<br /><br />I can reach 38.5mph on the GPS at 5800rpm and cruise at 4500rpm all day in the upper 20s.<br /><br />I still haven't gotten used to fishing a week on one 28gallon tank of fuel without ever needing my 6 gal. auxilary tank.<br /><br />I love to idle out of a marina and watch the people point and cup their ears because they can't hear the engine.<br /><br />Iboats has some coming off lease at extremely low prices. Check quick and you might save big bux.<br /><br />Mahalo.