4 stroke oil change

[PAkev]

Another month is about all thats left to my boating season before winterizing.<br /><br />Last fall I had the oil and filter changed in my Yamaha F150 at the dealer to the tune of $95.00. I then fished one final fall tounament before winterizing and tucking the boat away for a long winter nap.<br /><br />Every time I check the oil, it appears very clean but I do plan on changing it myself this time using Amsoil marine synthetic either before winterizing or before using next season. What are the pros and cons of having the new oil sit in the motor over the winter compared to waiting to change in the spring?<br /><br />Kevin

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

New oil is clean and there is nothing to settle out of it?

 

[PAkev]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> New oil is clean and there is nothing to settle out of it?

That was my original thought also <br /><br />BUT what about the fogging oil and/or other petroleum based rust inhibitors that have potential of making way into the new oil throughout storage, therefore contaminating the unused oil?

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Fogging oils shouldn't be dirty or harmful to any of it. My only problem with storage is synthetic has little corrosion protection without additives. Dino oil protects without additives. It seems dino would be better for storage and then change to synthetic when time to run it.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> . My only problem with storage is synthetic has little corrosion protection without additives. Dino oil protects without additives. It seems dino would be better for storage and then change to synthetic when time to run it.

For years I had heard that quite often, yet when Trailer Boats magazine tested 4-stroke oils last year, they found that Evinrude synthetic and Mobil 1 synthetic oils had the best rust resistance and Yamaha's dino oil had the worst rusting in the test.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> My only problem with storage is synthetic has little corrosion protection without additives.

Absolutly "OLD SCHOOL" thinking! You wont find a better 4 stroke outboard oil than what he wants to use. IMHO

 

[PAkev]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Thanks for the input guys,<br /><br />Do you think there will be any harm in storing with the current oil? In addition to the fogging procedure, I usually dump some MMO into the cylinders which has potential of ending up in the engine oil. I'd hate to find myself investing in more synthetic in the spring because of contamination.

 

[imported_Curmudgeon]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Dino oil protects without additives.<br /><br />Maybe, but no motor oil (2 or 4 cycle) comes without an additive package. On what imperical data do you base your statement about synthetics?

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Whoa boys. "Old school" and "empiracle" testing? Let me randomly rant...My point was PURE synthetic oil (not friggen brand A or brand B) gives NO rust protection in it's natural state. That leaves protection entirely to the blender. It's just another place they can save money on by skimping and another place I'm PERSONALLY cautious of. But I'm glad others do oil testing on their own motors so I can learn from them though.<br /><br />Now, post here what and how much corrosion prevention additives any oils have...what do the API specs say for auto vs marine? Can you do it, I can't. Where's your own new school and own empiracle testing data? If memory serves right at least a few of Amxxx products don't even have an API rating. Without the API cert it won't meet the minimum as specified by 99% of all auto makers and likely 99% of all 4 stroke ob mfgs. If you can provide a written statement from any car or motor mfg that non API oils are ok I will eat a jelly donut and publicly claim stupidity. <br /><br />The only way to know how oils do for corrosion protection is from self done empiracle tests or ones like Seahorse posted...and they are two high dollar products next to a high dollar dino oil. They are only three oils out of dozens available, so how good is the test? Yamaha has definitely shown in their motor construction that corrosion resistance isn't regarded as important when compared to OMC...so it's reasonable to me to think their oil is blended with the same mentality. OMC is opposite on corrosion and the oil tests may show that mentality too. <br /><br />Empiracle testing...Anyone can do it to compare storage properties of their favorite brands. I did it by dipping pieces of mild steel strap in off the shelf 2 stroke oils and hanging them outside. Best to worst...dino/castor blend, synthetic/castor blend, dino, synthetic. Let me make this clear again, that was TWO stroke oil.<br /><br />On the otherhand, my 50hp 4 stroke using Merc brand 4 stroke 10/30 dino oil started rusting on the valve springs when sitting 2-3 months. That was in 1997 when the motor was one yr old. I changed to 25/40 oil(same brand)and the problem went away...still have the motor and it still sits months in a harsh climate (on a boat lift hanging over saltwater) between use.<br /><br />Ok, the rants over. Slam away.<br />l8r

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

BillP,<br /><br />This is just to offer information in regards to your last post.<br /><br />The new Amsoil 4-stroke outboard oils have the latest FC-W NMMA certification, which includes rust testing. Surprising, but true.<br /><br />Find a back issue of the Trailer Boats oil test story. If I remember, they tested about 10 brands of oils to see what the differences were between the expensive "4-stroke outboard oils" compared to ordinary car oils. They listed the oil analysis results plus the rust testing results.

 

[imported_Curmudgeon]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

My only problem with storage is synthetic has little corrosion protection without additives. Dino oil protects without additives.<br /><br />Oh, silly me for thinking you were referring to marketed products actually in a 4 stroke engine (sorta like the thread insinuates). Glad your testing on 2 stroke oils was conclusive, though.<br /><br />BTW, what does dino oil protect without additives, and if fogging is effective, what difference does it make? Just rhetorical food for thought, no need for answers.

 

[PAkev]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by PAkev:<br /> <br /><br />Do you think there will be any harm in storing with the current oil? In addition to the fogging procedure, I usually dump some MMO into the cylinders which has potential of ending up in the engine oil. I'd hate to find myself investing in more synthetic in the spring because of contamination.

Guys.........<br />It wasn't my intention for this to turn into something like a plot against the antichrist, Saddam Hussein, or Osama Bin Laden!<br /><br />I was just contemplating on chainging my oil this fall or next spring and was asking for some helpful advice.

 

[timmathis]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Change it next season....

 

[LubeDude]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by PAkev:<br /> <br />It wasn't my intention for this to turn into something like a plot against the antichrist, Saddam Hussein, or Osama Bin Laden!<br /><br />

You did mention "oil" didnt you???

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by Old Curmudgeon:<br /> My only problem with storage is synthetic has little corrosion protection without additives. Dino oil protects without additives.<br /><br />Oh, silly me for thinking you were referring to marketed products actually in a 4 stroke engine (sorta like the thread insinuates). Glad your testing on 2 stroke oils was conclusive, though.<br /><br />BTW, what does dino oil protect without additives, and if fogging is effective, what difference does it make? Just rhetorical food for thought, no need for answers.

Being silly sounds like a personal problem but I'm laughing anyway. Forget everything I've posted so far. Now...do you have any testing data to post or anything constructive to say? Do you own a 4 stroke and store it? If so what type of oil do you use and have you pulled the valve covers and checked for corrosion?<br /><br />Seahorse,<br />Yep, I read that Amsoil has been getting certifications but don't keep up with which ones they are. I also tried to pull that article up a long time ago but couldn't find it online without ordering a back issue...I'm interested but not that much.

 

[imported_Curmudgeon]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Do you own a 4 stroke and store it? If so what type of oil do you use and have you pulled the valve covers and checked for corrosion?<br /><br />I have a 2004 DF140, my boat is usually inactive from November to March, and I've used AmsOil 10-40 marine 4 stroke since the 20 hr check. And yes, I saw the valves at the 100 hour this summer, they were clean, and required no adjustment. I also previously owned a DT140 for 15 years, a Johnson 70 for 15, and ran synthetics for most of their lives. Only internal problems came from fuel issues before I started using a stabilizer. I've also run 3 vehicles over 450k on synthetics, from Alaska to Florida, and none were repaired/replaced because of internal engine problems. Yeah, I have some practical test data, so lighten up, you're not the only one around with some experience.<br /><br />I'm not surprized you had a problem with rusting valve trains considering where you "hang" your boat. I've found saltwater environments to be corrosive to just about anything metal, stainless included, and particularly when in close proximity 24/7. Don't know about now, but when I lived on the FL coast it was an expected part of daily life.<br /><br />I threw the BS flag because you made a blanket assessment of synthetics that made no sense. That you then clarified by specifying base stocks made even less sense considering none of us use base stocks, but only market products be they synthetic or dino. I personally don't care if folks use synthetics or not; they work for me and have for a long time. <br /><br />PAKev, most outboard manufacturers are giving synthetics a whirl; call your dealer and follow his recommendations.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

leave the old oil in it for now, and change it when youre ready to start again next season

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Sound advice.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

My advice would be to change the oil and filter prior to storage.<br /><br />Used oil (even with little time on it) contains acids, fuel, dirt and metal contaminates, and an already depleting additive package. These all distract from the oil's ability to inhibit corrosion during storage. <br /><br />The cost of a pre-storage oil change is cheap in comparison to corrosion problems. An oil/filter change for that engine shouldn't cost you more than $20. There is no reason to use an OEM filter and expensive synthetic oil. Several 4-stroke oils meet the NMMA'a FC-W salt fog test such as Shell, Penzoil, Sierra, Nissan, Tohatsu, etc., and you can get your filter at just about any auto parts store for a fraction of the price.<br /><br />Since you're contemplating whether or not to leave the used oil in your engine during storage, the only test results that I suggest you consider would be those of legitimate used oil corrosion tests done by a professional laboratory. I doubt you'll find those here.<br /><br />Don't forget the lower unit.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: 4 stroke oil change

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> On the otherhand, my 50hp 4 stroke using Merc brand 4 stroke 10/30 dino oil started rusting on the valve springs when sitting 2-3 months. That was in 1997 when the motor was one yr old. I changed to 25/40 oil(same brand)and the problem went away...still have the motor and it still sits months in a harsh climate (on a boat lift hanging over saltwater) between use.<br /><br />Ok, the rants over. Slam away.<br />l8r

Agree with you Bill on 90%. Oil will not pick up THAT much crap in one little fishing outing-I'd use that oil until end of NEXT season. I change my oil in my many motorcycles ONCE A YEAR-fall. Change it, drive 30 miles to the nearest gas for fresh, and home until next season. And the newest is 21 years old. THATS old school PROOF. But Bill, a question. Ever check the valve springs in the car that sits right near the salt water too? (And why are we pulling valve covers?) )Just curious. But anyway, my take is ANY valve spring rust is caused by water in the oil, a by-product of combustion, and means the oil is not getting hot enough to vaporize it. Maybe condensation, but I live just off salt (wind/rain leaves a white streak on closed shed door bottoms over winter), and I have many exposed motors sitting out side with just covering of WD or plain old cheap oil sprayed over. Oh well, looks like I need a too start ANOTHER experiment. I'll grab some old valve springs, 2 each dock, outside covered bench, and, some oil, and away we go until spring...<br />PS. Seeing as how winterizing is the new word lately, I always tape off my gas tank vents, and plastic bags over carbs, but don't worry about exhaust........