2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

[thebrain]

load is approcemently 2500-2600Lbs this includes boat engine and trailer.

I understand the tongue weight is usalley 10% of load, (TW 260LBs) is this 10% for both single and dual axel trailers?


or is there any tongue weight reducedtion w/ a dual axel compared to single axel w/ same load? if yes what is the %?

Thanks STB

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

there is no definitive exact % that any given tongue weight should be.... 10-15% is a very safe range to be in.... generally a tandem trailer will work well at a slightly lower weight... maybe 1% so 9-14%

You are asking theoretical questions.... Why don't you tell us what you are trying to do so we can help you without all the tons of off topic debates that these types of questions usually cause.

Are you searching for a way to haul 2500 lbs with a 50cc scooter or what?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

Technically, a given boat on a single axle trailer would typically have a heavier tongue weight than the same boat on a tandem trailer. But the reason that's true is because the distribution of the weight on the trailers is different. That does not dimiinsh the requirement for tongue weight. A single axle trailer tows best with tongue weight in the 10% range with any error on the heavy side. Tandems tow better with the same tongue weight because they sway less.

 

[Silver Eagle]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

And if you have a tire go down it's a lot safer with four wheels then just two.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

Single axles obviously are more sensitive as tandems have load distributing spring linkage that transfers load from one axle to another as you transgress varied terrains. With a single axle you would get a definite bump and with a tandem the trailer would take most of the variance and you would hardly feel it.

The thing about tongue weight is stability of the trailer. With adequate tongue weight, the alignment of the thrust on the axle comes from as far forward as the front wheels of the tow vehicle. With inadequate tongue weight, the alignment of thrust on the axle(s) is between the axle and the rear of the trailer..........make sense? If you ever see a rear loaded trailer, tandem at that, with inadequate tongue weight jackknife in about 2 seconds, across 2 lanes of interstate, wiping out both rear quarter panels on the p/u truck in the process you wouldn't even think about asking the question again. BTDT....not lost a trailer, watched a "non-informed" co-worker loose a truck and load of concrete culverts on the interstate on the way from work where he thought he was heading home with a great "salvage" deal...The only thing salvaged was both rear quarter panels of his Ford p/u.

Mark

 

[thebrain]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

there is no definitive exact % that any given tongue weight should be.... 10-15% is a very safe range to be in.... generally a tandem trailer will work well at a slightly lower weight... maybe 1% so 9-14%

You are asking theoretical questions.... Why don't you tell us what you are trying to do so we can help you without all the tons of off topic debates that these types of questions usually cause.

Are you searching for a way to haul 2500 lbs with a 50cc scooter or what?

the 1% TW reduction seans kindoff expensive concidering the expense of 2 extra wheels hubs beerings ect. I was expecting more.

tow vehical was revelved in pervious simiarl thread.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=522195&page=2 post #29

thanks STB

Technically, a given boat on a single axle trailer would typically have a heavier tongue weight than the same boat on a tandem trailer. But the reason that's true is because the distribution of the weight on the trailers is different. That does not dimiinsh the requirement for tongue weight. A single axle trailer tows best with tongue weight in the 10% range with any error on the heavy side. Tandems tow better with the same tongue weight because they sway less.

Thanks for the explaintion STB

Single axles obviously are more sensitive as tandems have load distributing spring linkage that transfers load from one axle to another as you transgress varied terrains. With a single axle you would get a definite bump and with a tandem the trailer would take most of the variance and you would hardly feel it.

The thing about tongue weight is stability of the trailer. With adequate tongue weight, the alignment of the thrust on the axle comes from as far forward as the front wheels of the tow vehicle. With inadequate tongue weight, the alignment of thrust on the axle(s) is between the axle and the rear of the trailer..........make sense? If you ever see a rear loaded trailer, tandem at that, with inadequate tongue weight jackknife in about 2 seconds, across 2 lanes of interstate, wiping out both rear quarter panels on the p/u truck in the process you wouldn't even think about asking the question again. BTDT....not lost a trailer, watched a "non-informed" co-worker loose a truck and load of concrete culverts on the interstate on the way from work where he thought he was heading home with a great "salvage" deal...The only thing salvaged was both rear quarter panels of his Ford p/u.

Mark

I really like this boatcompared to the mr21. its hull weight is 1240LBs engine 300Lbs trailer 800Lbs plus battery gear ect. total load 2500LBs I was hopping w/ a trandom trailer & long tongue TW would be reduced significantly.

By stevethebrain at 2012-01-09


w/ all the experts advice on towing. I'll have to pass on towing this boat w/ current tow vehical which is limited to a class one hitch which everyone here knows is 200LB TW and 2K gross tow weight,
here's a link to my unconventional tow vehical
http://qwik219d9.150m.com/
it's a 99Pontica WS6 auto trans, w/ 2 trans coolers, extrenal trans fliter, TCI deep trans pan lots of HP mods, main mod is the welded in sub frame connecters making it a full frame car.

note:for a experiment I've loaded the trunk w/ 300LBs of weights and there is still a little suspension travel.

However I mite purchase this boat an have it transported, then obtain a stronger tow vehical.

Thanks Guy's for the advice this could possiablly be the end of my towing posts for near future.

I was concidering a last thread titled doe's the lenght of the trailers tongue determine TW? like a longer tongue
would have a reduced TW compared to a shorter tongue?
STB

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

You are missing the point about tongue weight. The object is not to get rid of tongue weight. 10% (roughly) of the total GVW is "required" for same towing. You are looking at this such that if you have a given boat on a given trailer and that results in exactly 10% tongue weight, then you could lengthen the tongue by two feet and have less (say 8%). that would be true. But it would likely cause the trailer to tow worse. You would then be forced to move the boat forward on the trailer to get that tongue weight correct again. You adjust tongue weight within limits of the trailer by moving the boat forward or back or by moving the axle forward or back. Moving the boat backward on the trailer or moving the axle forward would have the same effect as adding length to the tongue. Both would decrease tongue weight.

 

[thebrain]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

You are missing the point about tongue weight. The object is not to get rid of tongue weight. 10% (roughly) of the total GVW is "required" for same towing. You are looking at this such that if you have a given boat on a given trailer and that results in exactly 10% tongue weight, then you could lengthen the tongue by two feet and have less (say 8%). that would be true. But it would likely cause the trailer to tow worse. You would then be forced to move the boat forward on the trailer to get that tongue weight correct again. You adjust tongue weight within limits of the trailer by moving the boat forward or back or by moving the axle forward or back. Moving the boat backward on the trailer or moving the axle forward would have the same effect as adding length to the tongue. Both would decrease tongue weight.

I do understand the the 10% as a balanced load and a safety factor. looks like I've picked to heavy a boat w/ current tow vehical, I was kindof hopping to stripe down the unnessary stuff inside the above boat or more reliztically a stripped down MR21, basically have a larger version of current boat just a hull w/ a large tiller engine that would signifcantly reduce tow load and still have a blue water boat.

Have had little to no response on what a stripped down SC hull actualley weights. I can make general estimations and think it's possiable to have a 21-22' blue water capable boat at or below 200LB TW and under 2KLbs total load. then be able to use current vehical.

STB

thats why w/ my previous even smaller car I used to move most of the weight inside boat to over the trailers axels.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

Have had little to no response on what a stripped down SC hull actualley weights. I can make general estimations and think it's possiable to have a 21-22' blue water capable boat at or below 200LB TW and under 2KLbs total load. then be able to use current vehical.

Personally, I would not feel at all comfortable hauling that 22' boat with tandem axle trailer (even stripped down) with a car. Nope. That's just me though.

If you go that big, for safety, grab yourself a more capable tow vehicle. Just one fellas opinion.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

ANY boat you find sitting on a tandem axle trailer is going to be well over 2k+ total weight going down the road. And that boat you have pictured above is going to be over 2500 when ready to go with gear/fuel, etc... (You only allocated 160 pounds for gear/misc, need to up that one quite a bit)

I"m all for towing with a car, as I do it for thousands of miles each year, but there are limits. Like the poster above me mentioned, pretty much anything tandem is outside of what would be considered safe for general highway towing. If you are going a couple blocks at 25 mph, whole different story...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

You would need to strip that boat down to the bare hull and install a 10 HP outboard to get it anywhere near 2000# GVW. You need to do one of two things 1) buy a tow vehicle that can tote that load, or 2) downsize (dramatically) the boat you can tow with the car. That will put you out of the "blue water" category by a wide margin. Most 16 - 17 foot fishing boats that are common on inland lakes will tip the scales at well over 2500# on a single axle trailer.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

If you extend the length of the tounge it reduces the tounge weight. You might find that you have to move the load foward to make trailer tow right. It could start swaying under tow. Extending the length and moving boat forward is counter productive. It can be done, and yes it will reduce tounge weight some. I wouldn't be towing with car like that anyhow.I had a 40ft trailer with a 30 ft boat on it and reduced over all thength of trailer by 3 ft and it drastically increased the tounge weight.Think of it like a see saw. The farther away from the load the easier it gets to be able to pick it up because the fulcrum increases and gives you more leverage.The closer you get the heavier it gets.

 

[thebrain]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

heres a SC22' stripped down. what do you guy's think possiabley 2K down the road on a single axel floaton aluimin w/ aluimin wheels trailer ?

By stevethebrain at 2012-01-12

By stevethebrain at 2012-01-12

By stevethebrain at 2012-01-12

This is my current dream blue water boat.

Thanks for all the helpfull advice I will most likely end up w/ a stripped down SC and a stronger tow vehical.
STB

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

stripping it down might save 100-150 lbs... pretty trivial amount

 

[thebrain]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

You would need to strip that boat down to the bare hull and install a 10 HP outboard to get it anywhere near 2000# GVW. You need to do one of two things 1) buy a tow vehicle that can tote that load, or 2) downsize (dramatically) the boat you can tow with the car. That will put you out of the "blue water" category by a wide margin. Most 16 - 17 foot fishing boats that are common on inland lakes will tip the scales at well over 2500# on a single axle trailer.

how doe's this Toyota look for a tow vehical? or should I be concidering a Tundra w/ the V8?
Thanks STB


http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tacoma/2011/features-specs.html?style=101336174&sub=double-cab

 

[NYBo]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

how doe's this Toyota look for a tow vehical? or should I be concidering a Tundra w/ the V8?
Thanks STB


http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tacoma/2011/features-specs.html?style=101336174&sub=double-cab

I would go with the 4WD version in my neck of the woods, but either would probably be adequate for the boat in question.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

If you extend the length of the tounge it reduces the tounge weight. You might find that you have to move the load foward to make trailer tow right. It could start swaying under tow. Extending the length and moving boat forward is counter productive. It can be done, and yes it will reduce tounge weight some. I wouldn't be towing with car like that anyhow.I had a 40ft trailer with a 30 ft boat on it and reduced over all thength of trailer by 3 ft and it drastically increased the tounge weight.Think of it like a see saw. The farther away from the load the easier it gets to be able to pick it up because the fulcrum increases and gives you more leverage.The closer you get the heavier it gets.

You have the theory correct but the problem here is the OP is trying to reduce tongue weight so he can get down to the rating for the car. Shucks -- moving the boat back on the trailer can reduce tongue weight to the point where it hits you on the chin when you uncouple the hitch. That doesn't decrease the GVW. Lengthing the tongue obivously does the same thing but it now upsets the 10% tongue weight requirement for satisfactory towing.

 

[Silver Eagle]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

From what I see in the picture is your wheels need to come forward about three feet. There's to much open space forward. Two much wheels for the rear .Level out the load some. this will lighten up your tongue weight as well.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

you can't figure tongue weight percentage by sight moving the axle 3 feet forward would be a VERY bad idea and his question wasn't about lowering tongue weight but rather about lowering THE NEED for tongue weight.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: 2500Lb load tongue weight w/ single axel compared to dual axel

To the o/p...

Folks on this forum often quote 10-15% for tongue weight guidelines. Opinions vary! Manufactures of boats/boat trailers for set ups the size you are talking about often set them up using 6%. I have towed many this way. My current rig (3,800 lbs) is set with a little less than 6% and tows, stops, handles like a dream.

http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/pf_trstep3.html

P.S. I like the TA