225..no spark..wits end !

[22ISLANDER]

To all the folks that have helped, my appreciation cannot be said enough.

This engine was bought (with the boat) knowing that the stator was bad. The engine has great compression for its age...so I have been told. All cylinders are within 3 LBS at each other, with the lowest being 90.
I am on a budget, or more correctly, a spousal allowance. ( like nobody but me is relagated to the same rules). LOL

Anyways, the stator has been replaced, along with both powerpacks, and I have also stated in my previous posts that upon checking resistance to the plug wires, that all 6 were replaced with new ones just last week. After replacing the stator, I took the boat to be trouble shooted, and the "reputable OMC shop" said the power packs were bad, so I replaced them.

I purchased a spark checker from harbor freight after installing the electrical goodies, and was more than dissapointed to see that out of 6 cylinders, every one of the showed spark, but barely. ( this is the little unit that lights up a bulb) Some had more light, but most were so dim that you had to be in the dark to see it.

The engine is cranking at 600RPM or higher.
I even tried starting fluid, but no joy.
As the engine is cranking, I can seal each carb with my hand, and fuel is being sucked out of each venturi at an alarming rate.

Somebody told me today, that I may have 6 bad coils.
Is this possible ?
Can I test these coils on a bench ?

What am I missing ?

1987 Evinrude 225TX

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Don't be using a bulb type spark checker. You need a spark tester whereas you can set a 7/16" gap. The spark should jump that gap with a strong blue lightning like flame.... a real SNAP! Here's a tester you can build cheaply.

(Spark Tester - Home Made)
(J. Reeves)

A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a few finishing nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere. Use small alligator clips on the other end of the wires to connect to ground and to the spark plug connector that exists inside of the rubber plug boot.

Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:


..........X1..........X2

.................X..(grd)

..........X3..........X4

Do this test............

Remove all of the spark plugs. hook up the spark gap tester. Disconnect the large RED electrical connector at the engine. Crank the engine by using a small jumper from the battery cable side of the starter solenoid to the small 3/8" nut of the starter solenoid that engerizes the solenoid.

If you now have spark, the usual cause of the no spark probloem is a shorted ignition switch. Let us know what you find.

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Thanks Joe Reeves, I'll be looking for an arc spark tester this weekend, if I can't find one I'll make one.

But where do I go if the spark is weak ?

New Coils ?

Bad Grounding ?

The stator and timing base were tested buy a local Evinrude shop, and I was told all I needed was new power packs. I am now very reluctant to go back to that shop for more advice. Things are very slow around here and they are hurting for business...maybe hurting a little too much..

Replaced the ignition switch also, and have disconnected the big red plug and jumped the solenoid...still the same result.

 

[clanton]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

If you have a manual and multimeter, check the pack output to the coils.

Set the meter on AC an X the reading by .414. If the engine has S.L.O.W, the timer has 2 sets of sensors , one set for start, one set for run. Both sets have to be checked for output.

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Thanks Clanton...can I do this with a digital multimeter, or do I need analog ?

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Okayyyy.....just got home with an arc style spark tester and hooked it up.

1st cylinder...no spark at any length of the adjustable gap.
2nd cylinder ( left bank ), weak spark up to about 1/2 inch
3rd cylinder, weak spark, but would not jump past about a 1/4 inch
4th cylinder, (right bank top )no spark at any gap
5th cylinder, weak spark up to about 1/2 inch
6th cylinder, weak spark to about 1/4 inch

The quality of the spark arcing across is barely enough to see, nothing like a solid blue lightning bolt that is hope for.

I guess my next step is to check for the input voltage going to the coils from the power packs. Can I do this with a multimeter (digital ) or do I need to find an analog unit ??? What kind of voltage spike should I be looking for ?

If it turns out to be the coils, I will be relieved. If the packs are bad, I'm gonna cry....

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Disconnect the large RED electrical plug at the engine. Now, repeat the spark test by cranking the engine by using a small jumper from the battery cable terminal of the starter solenoid to the small 3/8" nut terminal that engerizes the solenoid.

If you now have proper spark, either the ignition switch is faulty or a short exists somewhere in the Black/Yellow wire that leads from the powerpack(s) to the raised "M" terminal of the ignition switch.

To test the ignition switch for the above short condition, reconnect the large RED electrical plug at the engine, then disconnect the black/yellow wire from the ignition switch. If you now have spark as it should be, replace the ignition switch.

Let us know what you find.

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Sorry I didn't mention...the big red plug was disconnected to do the test, either way the outcome is the same..( did it twice ). Ignition switch is new (3 weeks old).

 

[clanton]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Check the 2 charge coils.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Check your flywheel magnets. The hub magnets (sensor) have been known to slip. To check remove flywheel, invert so your looking inside it, with keyway @12:00. Look at factory splits in magnet, one should be @ 11:55 and 6:35. Also if a 88 or newer flywheel was installed it will never fire right as magnets different . Hope this helps

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Check the 2 charge coils.

Do you mean the power packs ?

I'm hoping to find a peak voltage meter today to check the input to the coils.

Also, the flywheel is original, and the magnets are in great shape and all are in place. This was inspected when I replaced the stator. It was after I replaced the stator that I took the boat to a dealer to have it trouble shooted. Dealer told me the power packs were bad, but the stator and timing base output was nominal.

The engine is a 1987 225 Evinrude....TXCUB.. Boat is a Wellcraft 228 Sportsman WAC

Seas are calming down to less that 3 feet at 12 seconds, water temp is 73*

IT IS TIME TO GO FISHING !!!!

LOL

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

The magnets I am talking about are on the hub in the center, the outers for charge/power coils.

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Ok...here's an update. Sorry for taking so long, but I'm on a spousal funding allowance and can only spend so much every payday.

Last weekend I had an outboard tech come to the house with a DVA meter. He pulled the leads going into the coils and tested no more than 25 volts going into the coils, hence forth the barely perceptable spark at the plugs. He also tested my old stator and said the was nothing wrong with it, along with my old power packs. He did, however, state that I had a bad Timer Base because the voltage flows out of the stator and into the timer base before it gets to the power packs, and that timer base problems on these engines can cause even the most seasoned techs to go nuts.

The new timer base just showed up (thank you UPS), and I hope to get it changed tonight or tomorrow.

Anything else I should look for ???

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Your tech is right on driving people nutts but confused on operation. Stator charges capacitor in packs, timer base tells capacitor to discharge, coil ups charge to 45,000 volt and !!POW!! blue arc...this is simple version

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Okayyyy, I'm learning so much here that I almost cant stand it !

I set out to change the timer base on Friday, and found that a magnet had cracked and moved on the flywheel. I'm still wondering how it happened, since they all looked fine and in place when I inspected them during the stator change. Next time I install the flywheel I shall be much more diligent.

Anyhow, I do now see that all the magnets seem to have moved, and the gap between them is more like 1/4", rather than 7/16". I did mange to purchase a new magnet and epoxy kit, cleaned everything up and glued the new magnet in place ( that is how I really discovered the gap discrepancies between the magnets). I did knock the remaining magnets out of the flywheel, 2 were lose, 3 were still fixed well with epoxy.

My question today is positioning of the magnets. The BRP kit states that a 7/16" bolt be used to set the gap between the magnets, but says nothing about where they should sit. Is there a set position for the magnets, or is everything fine as long as they are 7/16" apart ?

I have read in the forums here that all that matters is the gap, but some have argued that they should be positioned at set points along the compass rose.

Any advice before I glue the suckers in today ?

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Mount them in exactly where they came from.. the gap and compass points are not critical. The only thing critical is that you dont flip em over.. they must be N-S-N-S-N-S(North & South) If you flip one N-S-S-N charging system and charge coils will be affected.

 

[22ISLANDER]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

Gotcha there Faztbullet, there are notches on the magnets to point to the correct orientation.

Thanks

I just want strong spark !!!

 

[88seville100]

Re: 225..no spark..wits end !

I know this thread is old, but I have the same engine and same problem so I thought I would bring it back from the dead.

Just wondering if there was ever a solution to this problem? Did the timer base help at all?