2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

[beeheck]

I have a 2002 mercury outboard 25 hp Ser#OT516471, with the shifter on/in the handle. The motor is stuck in Neutral but the handle points to Reverse and I can't move the handle that shifts and/or speeds it up or down. It is stuck. I have proven it's in Neutral by being able to pull the rope to start it and it does. I have looked around under the hood and the pully the two cables used for shifting go around, one is tight as all get out and the other has enough slack I can lift it at least a 1/4". I have a Merc Service Manual for this motor and have no problem tearing into it but after scanning the service manual see it could be several things. I would like to narrow it down to the one thing that it most likely the problem. One thing I did notice in my looking around is in the arm, close to where it pivots up and down there is the pulley case assembly (both cabels go into it and the tube goes into the center of it to be turned with. It is loose, wobbels... I see no way to secure it but wanted to point this out.

One last question, how to I prove out wheter it is the cabels, the shift rod in the lower end, or something else?

Thank you

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Beeheck,

Disconnect the shifter linkage (item 11 in the part diagram of the service manual), and see if the tiller handle grip rotates freely. If not, then you have trouble with the throttle control. If it rotates freely with the shifter disconnected, then you have problem with the shifter mechanism.
The service manual goes in to great details on how to disassemble/reassemble the unit.
You can also check if the cable operates freely. Disconnect both cable ends from the pulley on the shifter side and see how the grip rotates. There is also a section on this in the manual.

Good luck, Peter

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Thank you! That gets me started into repairing it and not just swapping parts on it. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again, Bill

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

I got a motor holder built on to the garage wall and tore into my motor.
Took the cables off the shifter gear and the handle turns very easy and smooth, so I took off the top cam that holds the cables and then took hold of the bottom cam and could turn the motor from N to F to N to Reverse. I found the 1/2" square shaft the horizontal shift, put a wrench on it and it shifts time after time between all the gears. So I took the bottom cam also. Looking at this point for dry parts no grease, but everything was good. I put the handle in Neutral and put the bottom cam on with the ball bearing in the center divot (neutral) and again turned it by hand a couple times, worked fine. Put the top cam on and put the cables on, measured both arms and they were good, tightened the cables up and it worked fine. But, every time I go from N to R it catches and kind of snaps, it more than a click, you can feel it through the handle. Then the handle gets hard to turn right there, once past that point it turns just fine. I decided to give it a days workout in 10 minutes so I went from N to F to N to R to N to F to N to R.. well you get the idea, and it jambed again. I can go from N to F and back to N but not to reverse it's solid and won't turn. I greased everything with Teflon grease over doing it trying to make it work and clean it up later. Nope, stuck. Wish I could convert it to the old fashion side shift with the handle on the side of the motor. Any ideas what's making it hang up now after it worked for 15 or 20 cycles between the gears?

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Bill,

Well, my advise is still that divide and conquer!
Take off the linkage to the shifter and see if the hand grip gets stuck.
Remove the "primary gear" (item 31 in the SM), the one that shifts the direction, and see if things get stuck.
See if additional throttle linkages to the ignition advance and to the throttle plate get stuck.
See if any of the interlocks cause the jamming.
Try to find which of the elements get jammed by wiggling the hand grip gently back and forth when things are stuck and see where the motion stops. There is always some play in those linkages, you should be able to see one part of the linkage moving slightly while the other mating part of it is not moving if it is jammed.

BTW, you can convert the setup for side shift, there is a section in the SM for the side shift layout.
I did buy the side shift leaver for my motor (item 12), the part number is M8239521, and it cost me C$21.00. The bolt is standard M5 size, I did not get that one and the other components.
I hope I can get away without changing the cam gears and cable to the new layout, the side effect remaining that the throttle will increase again when reducing the speed with the hand grip past the neutral point. I would also loose some interlock feature, i.e. I could shift into gear when the engine RPM is high. Just like the older motors!
My motor is now packed away, so I will see it how this will work out next season.

Good luck, Peter

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

I did a little of that last night but couldn't find anything wrong, I printed out your reply and will go down it one at a time. On the side shift conversion it just seems like to me if I disconnect the shift linkage only it should work. I need to look at it closer and get a wrench on the horizontal shift shaft and start taking stuff off one at a time, trying it between removals. I'm not sure I can trust it now, get on the Missouri river, it won't shift, they will find me in St. Louis still cussing it. I'll just have to go through it one piece at a time and see if that helps.
Thanks for your help. Bill

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Think I found the problem, I did the step by step separate and conquer plan and have determined... drum roll here... it's the shifting rod, I think. I took everything off the motor moved by the shift cables, took the rod off the horizontal shift shaft, put a wrench on it and it worked fine a few times and then I could not get it to go into reverse for nothing. I turned the prop thinking that would do some thing, it did, it made the prop turn, nothing more. I goes from Neutral and Forward but not reverse, defiantly the problem. Now, what's in there to make it work from F to N but not from N to R? Linkage adjustment? Looks like I have to take the 4 bolts that hold the lower end to the mid housing (my own terms) book is out in the garage and I'm in the house. Little concerned here, lots of stuff in there, hope I don't muck it up. I did drain the oil out of the lower end, no grit or metal shavings. 2002 motor, one owner, me and I bet it doesn't have 50 hours running time on it, lower end oil was golden brown, never been changed until today. sticker is still on the lower end with the bar code on it, too good a motor to give up on.

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Bill,

Before you disassemble the lower end do check the reverse catch functionality. This is the thing that locks the motor against tilting up when you are in reverse. That mechanism is full of cheap plastic pieces that break, distort and flex under load. There could be something amiss there. It is operated from the shift rod that goes down to the gear case. Note that the manual also includes the leg and adjustments for the 4-stroke version. The 2-stroke version is at the end of the section. See the figure on page 6A-39, is that washer in the right place, does anything gets jammed there?

Good luck, Peter

 

[Star]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Golden brown doesn't sound good to to me. The standard LU is a little light on design and must be maintained with the best oil you can get. The pinion gear is very soft and there isn't any bearing behind it so no oil or even bad oil will quickly take it's toll an take the case with it. That unit is over $1500 dolars from mercury.

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

...
The pinion gear is very soft and there isn't any bearing behind it so no oil or even bad oil will quickly take it's toll an take the case with it.
...

Interesting!
The SM shows that there is a tapered roller bearing right at the pinion gear.
It still could be weak though...

Peter

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

The oil I drained is the oil it came with, it hasn't been used that much. I plan to but Mercury lower end oil in it when I rebuild it, but I have a couple of questions on what I found. Does it sound like to you the shift rod is out of adjustment? I have nothing connected to the horizontal shift shaft and it will not go into Reverse. It goes in to Neurtal and Forward just as smooth as can be but not Reverse. How tough a job is this going to be if indeed we agree it most likely is that shift shaft?

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Bill,

Your oil if fine, if it does not have water in it (it does not sound like) then it is OK.
Check the reverse catch functionality, as I mentioned before, that is also controlled by the shift rod. If that is not the reason for the jamming, then I guess you need to take off the gear case and see if the gear case is the source of the problem. You wanted to change the water pump impeller anyways, right? ;-)

Good luck, Peter

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

I took the lower end off last night, checked the shift rod but did not take it out, but it goes down into forward real nice, back up to Neutral and up again into reverse and then you just watch the shift rod slowly slip down, out of reverse. Pulled it back up harder and it does the same thing. It doesn't take a lot to hold it up into reverse but if you let go of the shift rod it slowly will ease down out of reverse. Could the shift Thingie (I'm at work) on the end of the shifter rod be ground down, chipped or something? I really don't know what it could be after that. The gear case you mention, is that the lower part with the gears with the prop on it? Or can I get at the gear case once the water pump is removed? I had the water pump changed last winter 2011 and I've put about 30 minutes on it this summer, do I need to change it?

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Bill,

You are doing good progress!
Now that the gear case (lower end) is off, that is the bottom unit, does the shift rod (that is sticking out of the gear case) gets stuck or jammed while you actuate it? Does the gear case shift correctly? If the gear case shifts correctly now, did you find what was getting stuck? Any chance that the shift rod was sticking somewhere in the leg?
From the drawings it looks that the shift rod could freely move up ad down, there are no detents to hold it in either position of shifting.
There is a spring pushing down on the shift rod under the shift rod retainer, and there is another spring pushing the cam follower out of the prop shaft. The cam follower is pushing on the cam, that wedge at the bottom of the shift rod, pushing it upwards. The two springs get into balance at some position. So what you mention about the "floating" shift rod sounds plausible. Also, from the drawings, the forward is when the shift rod is pulled up.
BTW, to take the gear case further apart, e.g. taking the prop shaft and gears out, you need special tools. Read through the manual, it is quite clear from the drawings and descriptions.
Your water pump impeller should be OK if you changed it last year. I put a smiley next to that sentence where I urged you to replace it.
No need to take off the water pump to take out the prop shaft, it needs to be removed if you want to take out the shift rod, or if you want to remove the pinion gear and shaft.

Good luck, Peter

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hey Peter,
The one piece in the SM book they put the comment, "Do not lose the washer you will need it" yep, I lost it. But in my defense and I'm not normally responsible for anything I do but in this case I'm not sure the washer was ever there. I saw it in the SM and looked for ever on the motor, found where it should be but between my poor eyes, poor lighting and angles I never saw it, I did see the pinched part of the shifter rod that it would be above but I never saw it. I took the lower end off, watching and listening because I knew if any one could muck it up, I'm your man. Never heard it, saw it and I swept up looking for it, nothing. I'm wondering if it got left off (see second sentence above, it isn't my fault), and that's causing my problem?? I went out and played around with the lower end and shifter rod, if I change the gears by pulling up on the shifter rod the prop will turn counter clockwise so forward must be a clockwise direction. Right or wrong I assimilate pulling up to get reverse when it drifted down because forward has given me no problem, reverse has and when I pull up on the rod it slips, hence reverse problem. See second sentence... you get it.... In your opinion could the washer not being there cause me a problem and if it could would it most likely be a reverse problem?
Oh, if I pull up on the rod and not turn the prop by hand but turn the drive shaft it does not slip out of reverse. Go figure. What is the washer size, do you know? I guess I could take the SM to the dealer and have him order me one but if it's a normal metric washer I'd just soon get it local and cheaper. And thanks for your help, you don't know how much it helps to be able to bounce things off someone and to get feed back that gets you headed the right direction.
thanks! bill

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Bill,

That washer lifts up the rod that unlocks that plastic reverse catch. That is the piece that prevents the motor tilting up when in reverse. Missing that washer should not get anything jammed, unless it is lost somewhere inside the leg next to the shift rod and causing it jammed. Have a look in the leg if the loose washer got stuck somewhere there.
Replacing the washer should not be a problem. Does not matter if it is metric or imperial, just make sure it has the proper dimensions. It should have an inside diameter that it would slip onto the shift rod loosely, but not pass that pinched section. The outer diameter should not fall through that looped part of that other rod that lifts the reverse catch. Get it in stainless steel if you can.
Any chance that the shift rod is bent and gets caught when the leg is attached?
Also, check those plastic pieces that lock the engine against tilting up, on my motor ('01) some of those were bent/distorted.
Do I hear it correctly that the as the leg is off, the shifting seems to be fine, you can pull and push that rod by hand without any obstruction?
The same diagram that shows that washer, also shows right above it a detent plate with a leaf spring that defines the shift points. Is that part of the mechanism working right?

Good luck, Peter

 

[Maxz695]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Here are some pictures of the lower unit interior parts form a 40 HP Might give you some idea whats in the LU Drive shaft View attachment 170912 Shift shaft View attachment 170913 View attachment 170914 Clutch dog View attachment 170915View attachment 170916 Pinion gear having trouble uploading it then theres the Foward and reverse gears with the bearings

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

I'm at work so bear with me on descriptions. The lower end is off, I have the shift rod, the drive shaft stick out of the very bottom of the motor and have access to the water pump housing cover. I pull or push on the rod to get it to change gears and it seems to be crisp and smooth in all directions. I just didn't like the fact that when I turned the prop and the rod was up it slipped slowly down into neutral. I tried last night to see how much it took to hold it up and I would say I put more grip into a glass of water to hold it than it took to hold the rod in the up position. First I will check the SM for that detent plate and leaf spring but yes, the shift rod works nicely. I will also look at it for being bent. I think after that I will put it back together and convert it from a handle shift to the old fashion side shift that doesn't fail. $166.00 for the complete list of items needed so not terrible and right now I wouldn't feel real confident about going out on the Missouri and making it home. It would always be in my mind that it's going to go bad.

 

[beeheck]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Peter, you might want to look at the part you bought (side shift handle) and check the square hole that mates with the horizontal shift shaft, a half inch wrench fits on the square end where the handle will go, but the handle square hole was like 7/16" smaller than the horizontal shift shaft end. I ground out the plastic with a dremel tool, went a little too far so I epoxyed it on, drilled a hole for a roll pin and now it's solid. It is curing tonight and will work on it hopefully tomorrow night. Just wanted to give you a possible heads up because I ordered the same number part as you.
Bill

 

[orbanp]

Re: 2002 merc outboard stuck in neutral....

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the heads up!
I have not put that handle on yet, but looks like I will be in for a surprise too!
The serial of my motor is OT057xxx, it was sold to me as a 2001, but I think it it is a 2000 model, as if that what the plate on the side of the motor stated.
The service manual says that it is for serial OGxxx and up. I took the printed page from the service manual to the dealer and pointed to the part of the handle. I also gave them the motor serial number. They came up with the part number. I am not surprised, those guys are thoroughly incompetent! (They had a hard time finding the correct impeller for my motor!)
Will see!

Thanks, Peter