2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

[rabijunco3]

Honeymoon lasted 56 hrs. Engine bought new in 7/02. Blew 8/15/03. Chevron with Techron 92 octane fuel only, Pennzoil Synthetic TCW-3 since 2nd. reservoir fill. Never abused. Run in LA marshes. 20 hr. checkup done at dealer as prescribed, all OK though dealer did not have the computer to read codes. When it went bad, it first lost power then the "noise" started, clanging-like. Would still run, not to plane, idled rough.Taken to a second mechanic when the first one treated me like a birdbrain, implying that the problem was the higher octane fuel and the Pennzoil and that I had only spent .6 hrs of 56 at 5000 or higher only and the motor "needed" to be run hard. I cruise at 3800 to 4500 RPM, weather permitting. Design calls for 2 cylinders to shut off at idle. At first, mechanic thought that was the problem then Yamaha tech support it was OK.. Then, when could not find anything wrong with codes, temp specs, complete checkup by computer of TPS, O2 sensor, etc., they sent a TPS, did not help. Cleaning O2 sensor did not help. Went to the tried and proven "read your plugs" and saw the metal flakes in the plug for the right top cylinder. Removing the head showed the top of the piston had donated metal to the environment and you can see the top ring for 180 degrees of the circumference of the piston, where the metal is gone. Compression tested good prior to this being found (looked at plugs after test). Looking on the net for similar problems, it looks like this is a VERY COMMON FAILURE. Just go to google and enter yamaha powerhead failure and read the horror stories. Some people on their 3rd. powerhead in 3 yrs.!! So far, Yamaha has agreed to send a powerhead and the injector for that cylinder, after all, it is under warranty, but the cost is going to be about $3400 for powerhead and $1200 for labor, the day I have to foot the bill. A 3 yr. extended warranty costs approx. $1700, cheap if this is to be expected to happen again.<br /><br />Now to the true problem. If Yamaha knows this IS A PROBLEM, what are they waiting for to recognize it and offer a true fix? Recall? Lemon Law? The American way of dealing with things = SUE, might be the only answer? Yamaha owners, unite. This motor costs $12000 to replace. The japanese were able to figure out how to build wankel engines seals that lasted over 120000 miles, they should be able to figure this one out. Any comments?? Thank God dove and teal season open soon to get my mind off the boat for now.

 

[bossee]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

Any comments??<br />----------------<br />Hi,<br />If I was in your situation I would probably sell the 200 hp HPDI when it is rebuilt under warranty and ready for use. Then buy a Yamaha F200 instead, or maybe a Suzuki DF200. Can't be worse? If Your economy permit an engine change of course.<br />Maybe have a look at any of the 2-stroke Mercury 200 hp also, or Mercury 225 EFI SaltWater 4-stroke? Or a Honda BF200 4-stroke?<br /><br />http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/subcatinfo .asp?lid=5&lc=otb&cid=19&scid=1&year=2004&cat=Four+Stroke+Series&scat=High+Power<br /> http://www.suzukimarine.com/sr04/df225-200/ <br /> http://www.mercurymarine.com/mercury_225_efi_saltwater_fourstroke <br /> http://www.honda-marine.com/mod200_225hp.htm <br /><br />I have a Yamaha F115 (2003) 4-stroke myself.<br /><br />/Bo

 

[rabijunco3]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

Thanks for the input. Still learning all I can on the net about the different brands offerings. I thought I had done my homework prior to this purchase, since industry magazine info suggested this was the best technology available. So far it looks like the EFI Merc 200 has been debugged. Honda seems too heavy and low in power and maybe not as fuel efficient as they claim. Needless to say, price is a concern. The thing is, why should we put up with engine failures from very expensive products? Isn't it fair to expect better performance than 56 hrs life span on a $12,000 motor?? I am sure there is a way to improve on the product. If the problem is that, in trying to make the engine so clean, that there is not enough oil in the mix to let them live long, then, do they have to meet 2006 regs. already at my expense? Get a guy that writes this darn viruses to reprogram the fuel map on the engine and improve on the product. Just a thought.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

hello<br /> I too have experienced many failures with this type engine. some piston detonation and some head gasket burn throughs. I mostly fight spark plug fouling complaints when people fast troll 1400-1800 rpm. they do this then have to put a new set of plugs in to come home. I bit tricky when your 65 miles off cape hatteras. the last Pair that blew the yamaha tech rep told the customer on our docks that he bought the motors he had to live with them. I too believe that for 15 K apiece the dang things should not only last 10 years but cook breakfast as well.

 

[Skinsk]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

Sounds like the same crap that goes on with Merc's optipop.. (err optimax)<br /><br />and I don't think the fict was ever fixed. either..

 

[rabijunco3]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

Here we go again!! 13 hrs. into new powerhead, affected cylinder injector, new impeller, plugs, Yamalube, the darn thing dies again!! This time no clanking noises. After trolling off Destin for 7 hrs., with some faster runs in between, got it on plane to go to the dock and it just lost speed and "went to sleep". Starter turns but not firing. No buzzers, etc. Just died. Good thing I had the 15 hp Yammie 4 stroke kicker and was able to putt-putt back. At the shop now. We will see what the verdict is this time.

 

[mzmanley]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

I'm still an old technology guy (carb me)...just got into the outboard racket. The stuff I've been reading makes one paranoid to shell out the Jackson for new technology. Some new owners swear by their purchases and some develop a tylenol addiction. You would think that the quality control creates a repeatable build. If the product coming off the assembly line is consistent then what is the common thread between those that have nothing but problems and those that are poster children for the manufacturers. What's the concensus; break-in procedures, variation in fuel or oil usage, faulty design and lack of testing or the mystery variable.<br /><br />PS.: If the new products lasted 10 yrs+ then they wouldn't cost $12K+. Manufacturers are likely hedging the warranty expense in the products price. Buying a new motor is sounding more and more like Russian Roulette.

 

[rabijunco3]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

Well, looks like this time it was human error. Wire loom pinched somewhere at the time of reinstalling it on the new powerhead, or so I was told yesterday. Now to the good stuff: another 200 HPDI at the shop with a hole on the middle left piston that could fit a dollar coin!! The top cylinder on that side has Godzilla scratch marks on it too. I have pictures of this one also, on my Sprint phone and will be glad to e mail anyone. Owned by a charter captain. Out of work and not very happy at this time. I wonder if it is time to play hardball and demand an explanation from Yamaha. Hey, there are gazillion Toyota Corolla's around and I have never heard of blown pistons, in fact, the only time I have seen this was on our 1978 55 Evinrude and in a friends Alfa Romeo.<br /><br />The reasons for the failure I have heard run the whole gamut from oil related to poor fuel quality in the South. Some say you should never use 92 octane; never use synthetic TCW-3; you have to run them hard; use Ring Free. The way I see it, premium is better because of decreased chance for detonation, which seems to be the problem with this motors. Looks like carbon builds up in the piston, keeps a "cinder" lit, pre ignition occurs and the rest is history.I believe the system is very good at timingthe injection and has O2 sensor for mainatining a lean burn but I do not think it has a knock sensor.Remember, none of the powerhead failures I have heard of, has there been a buzzer or alarm or "code" in the computer. If carbon is the problem, then using premium Chevron with Techron should help, and there might not be need for Ring Free at $90 a gallon. Please note, the old bottles specified 1 oz./15 gallon. The new one specify 1oz./10 gallons?? I wonder why Yamaha did that. The reason for specifying 87 octane is b/c you can not find higher grade fuel at the dock. You can not expect boaters to trailer to the station for it. Also, some people spend a lot on their equipment but use the cheapest fuel and oil?? If synthetic oil is in the racing engines, from NASCAR to Porsche/Ferrari and jet turbines, how come is bad for your outboard? <br /><br />Heard also that in trying to save the whales, the manufacturers are trying to turn an inherently dirty technology into what it is not, with the resultant mishaps. Maybe 2 strokes are meant to smoke and foul your plugs. By the way, if you want to see if your motor is in the process of melting down just take your plugs out every so often and check for "metal flakes" on them, Oops, there it is!<br /><br />All I know is that SOMETHING IS REALLY WRONG. I will post any new info as soon as available.

 

[rabijunco3]

Re: 2000Yamaha 200 HPDI Powerhead Failure

More on the same. 2003 200 HPDI from area fishing charter captain blew 2 pistons. One of them had a hole in the top of the piston that you could have passed a dollar coin thru!! The wrist of the piston could be seen thru the hole. The other cylinder was "starting to self destruct". Yamaha replaced powerhead under warranty, owner paid $300 for overnight shipping so could get back in the water faster. I do have pictures of this piston, never seen something like that. To my understanding, Yamaha still does not think that there is a problem with the engines, "isolated incidents". I will be calling the Yamaha rep for the area today and see what he says. Yamaha cust. service in CA leaves you feeling like a fool after you talked to them. They take it that as long as Yamaha repaired the motor it is all OK.<br /><br />My last failure was due to a pinched wire on reinstalling the electronics on the new powerhead. My son prefers to stay closer in now b/c of the fear of another failure. This is really muffling our fun. We will see with time what happens.