2000 Volvo Penta 5.7GSi PEFS still running rich!

ChrisCraftFan

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Jun 18, 2013
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I have been thru about everything I can think of including some great advice from this group! I am looking at the MEFI 3 now and wondering if it is somehow sending incorrect information to the injectors regarding pulse width. Has anyone had experience with John at Boats Unlimited? He seems to have a handle on the ECM's but I was hoping someone here has experience with him? I have a couple local VP mechanics pointing to the MEFI 3. If I can eliminate that as an issue i can keep moving forward.
Thoughts on Boats Unlimited?
 

alldodge

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John at Boats U is a sharp guy and knows his stuff, only thing IMO he's a bit arrogant. Loves to tell folks how much he knows, just don't contradict him or he will go off the deep end some times, not always.
 

ChrisCraftFan

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Jun 18, 2013
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I used them first, sent my mefi to him and even bought his mefiscan software. He said the mefi was fine but now when I talk with him he says I should try swaping out a known good mefi to see if it fixes it. If I had one of those I would use it. What the heck??? What did he check? I spent some time talking to John and he seems to know his stuff. Tests them for over an hour to push a failure. Also takes them apart to test and inspect individual components. We talked about how dirty injectors can overheat the drivers in the ECM and he will check that. Who knows, but I am as of today not a huge fan of OBD. I spent a bunch of money to get advice to try a good one.
 

alldodge

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Opinion: Bob at OBD has been testing them for much longer then John. As before John loves to talk and for him there is no one that is better then him.

That said, IF the ECM is causing the injectors to stay on to long, I don't see how that can be tested. The ECM is pulsed and a reading is taken did it turn on/off in the given amount of time. Keep in mind the ECM only supplies a ground to turn the injector on.

Power to the injector comes from the harness and main power relay. It might be in the fuel tables, if the ECM was changed or a different fuel table was loaded.

What is the Delphi part number on the ECM
 

ChrisCraftFan

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Jun 18, 2013
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crud I guess I am screwed again. I packed it up and sent it to John already. John said he could test the injector drivers. who knows. More time/money spent on this I guess. Sure seemed like he was going to thoroughly test it and test individual components and drivers. I'm an easy mark at this point I guess. I would just walk away if I wasn't so invested in this darn boat. I do know I am tired of not boating! LOL
 

ripjmk

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Feb 26, 2019
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Trying to to understand what could make the ECU think the engine is flowing more air than the sensor reported RPMs and MAP pressure would indicate (injecting fuel for more air than is actually flowing) . The only thing I see as a possibility is to much valve overlap! You said in the past that it is a factory cam, but is it a marine cam that agrees with the ECU fuel table? Did the engine builder supply the ECU or was it from the old engine? It's a new engine right? so new pistons and rings and the swept volume has to be taken as being good. You made no change to the intake path did you?
OBD originally said your MEFI3 was good right? So the engine has to be breathing less than expected at idle!
Factory Cams cover a multitude of engine uses with differing amount of valve duration and overlap. Race cams are known for giving a rough idle without backfiring and not "coming on cam" until higher rpms are reached. I'm not saying you have a race cam but it may not have the flow characteristics at idle that your ECU is expecting. Can you get the specs. for the cam installed?
 

dypcdiver

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Nov 1, 2005
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I had a running rich problem for a full season, turned out to be a bit of debris holding the thermostat slightly open and causing it to run at 140 F. ECU kept supplying a rich mix.
 

ChrisCraftFan

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Jun 18, 2013
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Flagship marine engines did the rebuild, Asking around I understand to be a very reputable marine engine builder. they tell me the exact same cam spec was used. (New though). Could they be full of it, maybe I just have to trust them. Same mefi 3 that was on the boat before. Same intake, Although I did get it machined to be perfectly flat. When I took the manifold off i did check the valve lash to see if maybe they were to tight. Flagship had them all right on the money. Half a turn passed zero lash. Same TBI, and distributor. Although all new Volvo Penta ignition module, pickup coil, Plug wires, tps, iac, coolant temp sensors, MAP sensor, on my second set of spark plugs.
I have the Mefi scan software from OBD and coolant temp is at 72.5 C (162.5 F). Bob looked at a scan i sent him but didn't know if the injector pulse width was correct or not. I don't have the fuel tables or the knowledge to understand the numbers either. Bob is great don't get me wrong. I'm just not super happy with were it lead me.
Yes OBD said it was mefi was good but now, in conversations with him, it was a basic test and he says I should try replacing it. mefi 3 units don't grow on trees and the programming would have to be changed for my engine. So "trying" a replacement doesn't feel like a solution to me. I thought John seemed like a good option but, I don't know now. Lucky for me most of the new Volvo Penta Ignition parts I didn't have to pay for. The Marina that had my boat for 2 months didn't charge me when they gave up on it.
I am sure you can sense the frustration. Certainly not intended for this group you folks have been fantastic!

I now find myself waiting at least two weeks to get the mefi back from John but PLEASE keep the ideas coming. I need to get back on the water relaxing instead of stressing. LOL
 

Tail_Gunner

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Jan 13, 2006
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crud I guess I am screwed again. I packed it up and sent it to John already. John said he could test the injector drivers. who knows. More time/money spent on this I guess. Sure seemed like he was going to thoroughly test it and test individual components and drivers. I'm an easy mark at this point I guess. I would just walk away if I wasn't so invested in this darn boat. I do know I am tired of not boating! LOL
That was not a bad idea, it should be clear Bob is a software tuner professional and John appears to be a hardware guy..at least his website presentation eludes to that.
I assume you have that vacuum problem fixed..correct?

It is time to stop thinking along the lines of a mefi issue, think along the lines of fuel delivery problem and a carb. If I remember correctly..frankly could you describe your issue once again?

I seem to remember or recall your issue lies when you bump the throttle and then it clears up? Does this engine run steady when there is no throttle changes? Have you placed a fuel pressure gauge on the engine while tooling around and it stays steady at all rpm ranges especially during throttle bumps...Why so many plug changes, are they wet or sooted up badly???
 

ChrisCraftFan

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Jun 18, 2013
Messages
184
I talked with a lot of people (maybe i should say bugged) about the vacuum. its at 17 and I thought that was low but it seems to be in range. I can find no leak anywhere. I have even had the intake off, got it milled perfectly flat and reinstalled it. I have done the carb cleaner spray on everything and even built a smoke machine to test with and found nothing. I am thinking mefi since it controls the injector pulse width. (and is about the only thing left I have to grasp onto) definitely a fuel issue but finding out why has been more fun than a guy should be allowed to have. It doesn't have a carb, sometimes I wish it did! LOL
You are correct I notice it when I hit the throttle and it does seem to catch up when the boat planes out. Idles okay, when I watch idle on mefiscan it bounces a bit between say 585 and 612 or so) I think it is always dumping to much fuel it is just exaggerated on hard acceleration. As for spark plugs, I initially put in new spark plugs and the marina replaced them, said they were sooted up but I never saw those. I have removed the ones they put in to make sure they gapped them properly and they did have black on them but otherwise seemed okay and did have the correct gap. As for fuel pressure its a pretty steady 30 pounds no matter what - idle, under load, and cruising. (book says 29 +- 2)
 
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