20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

seabuddy

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
89
A friend thinks he wants a 20' boat with more seating behind the windscreen for a better ride, and he?s found a boat that he thinks will do it. The reason for placing the extra seating in the back of the boat? He figures that the further back towards the transom, the better the ride will be. In general, I think he?s right. Most boats give more of a sporty ride the farther forward towards the bow you sit. The back of the boat is for the softer ride. For example, the layout of a Center Console places the helmsman fairly far back within the cockpit for this reason. So the skipper of a CC usually gets a good ride via this location.

wm+550+north+coast+diesel+inside+cocpit+seating.jpg


Then how does the boat that my friend pointed out get more seating behind the console helm? The designers put the engine under the seat, eliminated the splash well, and gained seating room! And then they raised the transom to a flat, straight-across design, fairly tight to the back of the boat within the cockpit. These features accommodate a second padded seat, facing aft. That allows for the additional seating behind the windscreen ?and gets the ride he wants for the most people onboard.

wm+550+bow+seating+north+diesel.jpg


Once the designers put the engine under the seat, they decided to use a drive system that offers power trim as standard equipment. It provides more range, and requires neither additional cost nor additional space allocated to a bigger fuel tank. I/Os with power trim generally gain range compared to I/Bs with the same fuel tank size.

wm+550+helm+north.jpg


Funny how one decision begets another...

wm+550+north+20+helm+cockpit+diesel.jpg


Once they thought through the seating location, and then found the range gain through power trim, the engineers decided on a diesel engine to gain even more fuel mileage. My friend can have a Merc/Cummins diesel as shown in the photos, or a Volvo diesel of either 130 or 160 Hp, any of which will provide good numbers and snappy performance. Traditional folks can also get the same boat with a Suzuki or Mercury O/B of about 150 - 175 Hp. These do not have the extra seating, though, since they have a big splash motor well against the back of the cockpit to match up with the cut-down transom that together takes up about the same space. And the O/B option is about $5,000 - $7,000 cheaper.

wm+transom+mer+cummins+north+20+550.jpg



So, back to my friend and his attraction to this utility boat. With its open cockpit, it allows the kind of walking-around space that many boats of this size don?t offer. That?s what attracted him to a Center Console style in the first place. Not that he will fish that much. He wants to day-cruise the bays and sounds, look at waterfront homes, and go to lunch on a sunny day. Or take a quick solo run to blow out the cobwebs in boat style that affords an easy clean-up.

This boat is exactly 20', with a trailer-able beam of 8 ? feet. It?s made with an all-fiberglass construction method. To me it seems like a rather small boat for open waters, where a steep chop can blow up quickly with an afternoon wind. But it should be an easy tow and an easy-to-launch rig.

The boat builder also makes larger models, but this is the one that has my friend?s attention. He likes the shallow vee bottom of 10 degrees at the transom. When I counsel him to consider a deeper vee for more open waters, he retorts that it has as deep a vee as those ski/wakeboard boats that are promoted as a salt water series.

So, here are the questions?

1. What else should he be considering?

2. Which power: Diesel or O/B?

3. Should he get a bigger boat?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

When I counsel him to consider a deeper vee for more open waters, he retorts that it has as deep a vee as those ski/wakeboard boats that are promoted as a salt water series.
Promoted? Maybe. Work in rough water? Not a chance. 10 degrees will beat the ship outta anybody sitting anywhere . . . If there is any chop to be had, forget it. It still cracks me up that these Skiboat builders that built flat hulls for quick planing times and minimum wakes have suckered the public into believing they can now double as a family boat for digging a big wake. Oh, yeah they turn the engine around backwards, and add ballast, and a big single trim tab, water brake, foil thingee-ma-bob. I think they're a joke :eek:

Now to your friend. What's his budget? Seems like a better place to start. No pleasure boater will recover the cost of a diesel unless he keeps the boat for 20 years. That's recover, not save money, in real dollars . . . never. With that clean design I like the I/O, but most will say OB . . . Oh, oh, 18 degrees of deadrise minmum . . .
 

SuperNova

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
1,455
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Promoted? Maybe. Work in rough water? Not a chance. 10 degrees will beat the ship outta anybody sitting anywhere . . . If there is any chop to be had, forget it. It still cracks me up that these Skiboat builders that built flat hulls for quick planing times and minimum wakes have suckered the public into believing they can now double as a family boat for digging a big wake. Oh, yeah they turn the engine around backwards, and add ballast, and a big single trim tab, water brake, foil thingee-ma-bob. I think they're a joke :eek:

Now to your friend. What's his budget? Seems like a better place to start. No pleasure boater will recover the cost of a diesel unless he keeps the boat for 20 years. That's recover, not save money, in real dollars . . . never. With that clean design I like the I/O, but most will say OB . . . Oh, oh, 18 degrees of deadrise minmum . . .

Couldn't agree more!! I would be the first to say go with an outboard mounted on a seadrive. It's more versatile and less maintenance and cleaner overall. Also a lot less weight.
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Gosh, this post just makes me so curious about this boat!!

Who would make such a wonderful craft, and how much could I get one for?

I can *almost* see the logo of the manufacturer in one post! It's so tantalizing!


-----------

Once again, we see a near-commercial post from SeaBuddy, written in ad copy style, purporting to ask a question that could easily be answered by anyone doing a quick search through the archives of this board.

Erik
 

SuperNova

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
1,455
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Gosh, this post just makes me so curious about this boat!!

Who would make such a wonderful craft, and how much could I get one for?

I can *almost* see the logo of the manufacturer in one post! It's so tantalizing!


-----------

Once again, we see a near-commercial post from SeaBuddy, written in ad copy style, purporting to ask a question that could easily be answered by anyone doing a quick search through the archives of this board.

Erik


Maybe Seabuddy has a photographic memory and when he reads the ad copy on something he can quote it back word for word. Or maybe he's like one of those cassette recorders where instead of coming up with his own words he just plays back what the adman said. I agree his posts do seem like remarkably well hidden SPAM. I would make a recommendation to Seabuddy that since there are so many questions about his posting style, he may want to change it. Just my humble opinion.
--
Stan
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Looking at the boat it is hard to picture the matiance NOT being a nightmare UNLESS a whole lot of deck comes OFF pretty easy :confused:



Tommays
 

SuperNova

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
1,455
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

That's my thought, too. In addition, I know a 20' v8 I/O is pretty stern heavy and I know the Cummins diesel weighs significantly more, so could you imagine the draft issues and bow rise on intial accel? In a 28 or 30 footer who cares, right. But in a 20 footer.... All I know is I've owned both o/b and i/o in 20 foot and I swore I'd never buy another in the 20' range with an I/O. draft is too much, packaging is too tight to access easily, bow rise is ridiculous, and usually if your passengers want to sit in the back, unless the boat has A LOT of power, it takes forever to get on plane. I personally will stick with O/B or inboard(ski/wakeboard boat) in that size range.
--
Stan
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
15,950
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Possibly Northcoast boats? Their write up sounds kind of familiar

With a 10 degree dead rise if ought to come with complimentary first year visits to the Chiropractor:D
 

Andy in NY

Commander
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,109
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

all i could smell while reading that was spam. now i am hungry for a spam and tomato sandwich...


hmmm...
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose that possibly his "friend" does not really exist :)
 

MikDee

Banned
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
4,745
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

That was my first opinion,,, spam
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Closed for review by the mod team.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

reopened by mods.
 

seabuddy

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
89
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Does one engine being located 5-feet-forward-of-the-transom and the other being located over-the-transom change the weight balance between the two powerboat designs?
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

same hull, there is a definate change in handling, and performance. similar to all passenger being in the bow, or all in the stern.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

See . . . hmmmmmm . . . this why seabuddy's motives will always be questioned by other members. He knows, with absolutely no doubt, that the answer to his question above is "Flip Yeah, Man!!" Read any of his other threads . . . Why ask this? It's like asking "will a sailboat be faster in 5 knot or 10 knot winds?" . . . He even gives the answer by describing where the engine is mounted in front of a flippin' jackshaft. Very strange . . . :confused:
 

SuperNova

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
1,455
Re: 20 foot boat, Gas or diesel, I/O or O/B

Does one engine being located 5-feet-forward-of-the-transom and the other being located over-the-transom change the weight balance between the two powerboat designs?

Depends on where they locate the fuel tank, I would say. And either way, it's still better than an I/O with a very heavy engine/outdrive mounted right at the transom, particularly a diesel I/O. Just my opinion based on my personal experience. Between the excessive weight mounted in a difficult to offset location (right at the transom), the maintenance issues and draft issues of an I/O, I will never buy an under 22ft boat with an I/O ever again. It will be an outboard or, if a ski boat, it will be an inboard. NO I/O. EVER. Once again, Just my humble opinion.
--
Stan
 
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