2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

[CWCW]

Curiosity. Why do you mostly see 4 stroke motors pre-rigged on inshore and offshore saltwater boats when looking at online? Besides the idea that 4 strokes are better for trolling, are the 2 stroke motors not meant for saltwater use, or is trolling the reason? Is it that people want the reliability of a 4 stroke when 15 miles out offshore?

 

[tommays]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

A lot of is just what brand of BOAT the MOTOR builder owns

And there are also a LOT deals to only use one brand of motor

And then there is a lot of stuff you can buy with no pre-rig and do what ever you want


It makes sense for many people as they really only want it to run and trust there dealer




Tommays

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

the 4 strokes have not proven to me that they are more reliable than 2 strokes, i have several 50 years old 2 strokes going strong.

Brunswick corporation, owns 27 boat manufacturers, these boats only have mercury outboards or mercruiser i/o motors, because mercury is also own by them.

there is a lot of hype for 4 strokes, when the evinrude Etec, is just as clean motor. there is a higher price tag on most 4 strokes.

 

[dingbat]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

Four strokes have a very good reputation for fuel economy, reliability and longevity amongst the offshore and near shore crowds. This becomes very apparent when you look at the big names like Grady White, Contender, and Regulator only offering Yamaha 4 strokes.

It?s not that 2 strokes are not suitable for the environment; it?s just that performance, the strength of the 2 stroke isn?t a major player when making the decision. Number one is reliability and number 2 is fuel economy.

Most 2 stroke advocates that they get no better mileage than a 2 stroke and it?s true if you run WOT, but the reality of the offshore game is that you rarely if ever run at WOT. Most time is spent either cruising at 4,000 - 4,500 RPM or trolling which is where the 4 stroke really shines.

Case in point, from the Yamaha performance bulletins

Cobia 234CCt Center Console

200 HPDI run at 4K rpm = 3.18 mpg
1K Rpm = 2.47 mpg
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/...etin_otb_2StrokePerf_HPDI_200hp_016-COB-Z.pdf

F225 run at 4k rpm = 4.20 mpg
1K Rpm = 3.57 mpg
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/..._otb_4StrokePerf_HPV6_225hp_02-205-COB-B.pdf

On top of it you have the stigma of the 2 stroke failures of the late 90s early 2000?s to contend with. A lot of people got burned and they have long memories of that fact.

 

[CWCW]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

dingbat,
i even like the sound of those numbers and the longevity factor for a 4 stroke for me, even though i wont be out in the tide, ill be in the lake. In my situation of maybe deciding go with a 17 ft aluminum bass boat this spring, the fact that it comes with a F115 Yamaha sounds like it would be a better choice for me.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

"Why do you mostly see 4 stroke motors pre-rigged on inshore and offshore saltwater boats"

Dealers order in what they believe will sell with the fastest turnover. In no way, shape or form should that be interpreted as a vote for or against any brand or technology of the outboard. Consumer demand comes from the perceived desirability of a product based on whatever that individual consumer considers important. The Ficht debacle, as well as the problems with early Opitmax and HPDI engines, left an impression with the boating public that 4-stroke technology was the way to go. It's been a slow and uphill battle to re-educate the public that a 2-stroke DFI is often superior to a 4-stroke. Most dealers are not going to invest the time or risk alienating a potential customer by telling them that 4-strokes are not superior. BRP and Tohatsu are the only two manufacturers that have based their future solely on DFI and there is only so much that they can spend on advertising. And to be completely frank, BRP is the one who is really carrying the ball on that.

Tommays is correct about transom availability as being a factor as well. As the marine industry experienced vertical integration by engine builders scooping up boat lines, less and less boats are sold where consumers actually get to choose their power. Today you pick the boat and the engine is what it is...Unless you pitch a fit.

 

[JRJ]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

I think they throw in a paddle with 2 stinkys and don't with 4 smell betters. Most folks aren't into paddling so they buy 4-strokes.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

2stinky????
I have probably seen as much smoke from my F150 yamaha as I have from my 175 E-TEC.
most outboards simply die of neglect.
I may have seen 2 that actually wore out in my 30 years or so of doing this for a living.
both were 70 OMC 3 cylinders on a commercil crab boat.
but now that Yamaha is offering an F250,F300,F350 and a special version of the F225 for bass boats we will see.
I really really want to play with the F225 sport.
that engine,with a few mods, would easily make 400 Hp. wont take long before someone does it.
all it is is a detuned F250,still has a single throttle body and variable cam timing. I am not really sure its detuned as the ABYC allows 15% up or down from the stated HP on the tag.
but modern 2 strokes are still very reliable.
yes the FICT,Opti-pop and early HPDI (250 especially) had isues almost all have been resolved.
but four strokes,verado nd early honda also had isues.
gret thing about it? customers will always neglect it and I will still have a job in the morning.

 

[DJ]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

Both Toahtsu Guru's and rodbolt1.0's comments were spot on.

It takes a ton of truth to change an ounce of opinion.

I don't know if BRP can pull it off. I sure hope they do.

 

[JRJ]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

Both Toahtsu Guru's and rodbolt1.0's comments were spot on.

It takes a ton of truth to change an ounce of opinion.

I don't know if BRP can pull it off. I sure hope they do.

I like the ton and ounce. I wish BRP well also DJ.

Glad you're still around rodbolt. Surprised that F150 smokes. I will consider an etec for my next boat.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2 stroke DI's for saltwater use?

the F150 doesnt, but then neither does my E-TEC.
I use the synthetic stuff from BRP in it not the TCW 3, I could reprogram it but why bother.
only thing with the E-TEC is getting used to the funny smell when trolling.