2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

[sprouticus1]

well hello again Iboats. It's almost springtime here again in southern BC, and once again I am in need of your help (had to start a new profile.....issues signing in).

So last August I parked the boat in the driveway, expecting to take it out the followaing weekend. As luck would have it....the boat sat till mid october, because every weekend had lousy weather. I finally took her out for the final cruise of the year in october, and then parked her for the winter. I had some un-expected issues the last time out. My starter solenoid wasn't engaging, and I had to by-pass it by shorting out 2 screwdrivers over the leads. This allowed the starter to kick in, and I had my girlfriend push in the key to engage the choke. the engine wouldn't start, and I then realized the solenoid that works the choke wasn't working either. I manually pushed the choke, and she fired up. I ran the boat for an hour or so with no problems, and then packed her away for the winter..expecting to be working on it in the spring.........which is almost upon us.

SO heres what I know. My engine is a 1992 90 HP evinrude. the controls are most likely from the 1977 70hp that was on my boat when I bought it. (I have the controls for the 90hp, but I prefered the controls that were already on the boat.) Turning the key off does shut the engine off, but you can not start it with the key alone......you need to by-pass the solenoid. I can see the one solenoid going.........it's happened before and I know it's an easy fix....but for the choke to go as well has stumped me. I was thinking it may either be a grounding issue, or perhaps the controls are the problem. Or perhaps it is the solenoids. I don't know where look first.

I have a couple of weeks at least (perhaps months) until I will be out on the water, so I was hoping the nice people on here could give me a few tips before I get started.

thanx for reading.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

sure sounds like the 20 amp inline fuse is blown. on the side lower right in pic.
this provides power to the control. the kill circuit grounds the coils.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

By all means check the fuse. If the tilt and trim doesn't work either that's that points to the fuse as well. That big red plug is also suspect. Disconnect and reconnect it a few times to burnish the terminals.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

did I mention I love this site????

thankyou so much guys, I will take a look on wednesday (first chance I get). HOwever, my trim/tilt was working fine last trip out. It would be awesome if this was as simple as a blown fuse. Can I assume that switch and contact cleaner in the red plug is a good idea??

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

The wiring diagram indicates that the Tilt and Trim control takes positive feed from the terminal block in line with the fuse, so if the T&Tcontrol is working, it is either that the fuse is OK or that the T&T has been rewired.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

I'll post back as soon as I find out what the problem is. I wouldn't be too surprised if the tilt/trim was re-wired.

ONce again, I want to say how great it is that there are folks in this world as great as the experts on this site. to take the time out of your day to help strangers..........incredible. I hope you all never have to wait in line at the ramps.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

well hello again.

so I checked the fuse, (tiny little 20 amper isn't it?) I hooked it up to a meter and continuity was good....so the fuse was not the problem. I also disconnected that big red plug and sprayed some switch and contact cleaner in there..although it looked pretty clean. I reconnected everything, and still no go on either the choke or the starter solenoid. however the tilt and trim do indeed work, and I was able to engage the starter by crossing 2 screwdrivers over the solenoid again.

anymore ideas guys??? can you check a solenoid to see if its good?? I assume you must be able to using a 12v battery and either have a good ear, or a meter...........but I've never seen it done. I'm guessing hooking my leads up to the smaller posts on the solenoids should allow continuity between the bigger posts...........is this right???

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

ok.......I just brought my girlfriend out with me, and I did some test with the meter. I am reading 12.11 Volts between the big terminals, but nothing between the small ones even when she is turning the key..........so my guess is the solenoids is not the problem..........and since the fuse appears to be good..I guess thats not it either. I am guessing I need to rip appart my controls or perhaps it's a broken wire. In either case, I won't have the time till at least next weekend more than likely, and I would appreciate any other ideas or any tips on what to look for when I find the time to do it.

thanx for reading.

I see somebody else is having similar issues........I'm going to study his thread somemore.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

if the problem is in my controls....then does it make since that shutting off the key, turns off the engine???

BTW....there does seem to be continuity between the smaller terminals on the solenoid...........if that helps at all.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

The two small posts on a solenoid go to the electromagnet that throws the two large posts in contact with each other so that the battery power can go directly through the solenoid. The small posts are always a closed circuit.

Start by copying this link to your browser without the quotation marks, so that you can print it out and get the wiring diagrams:

"http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ignitionSwitch.html"

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

Now the earlier control was wired a little differently, in that it had a separate toggle switch for the choke. The more recent models had the ignition switch that you pushed in the key to choke.

So, if you have the earlier one, it will have the toggle switch for the choke and be wired as shown by clicking the thumbnail below.

In either one, the positive current flows to the ignition switch from that wire with the 20 AMP fuse at the engine to the B or Batt post on the ignition switch. The little circular diagrams show how the ignition switch connects the B to the S when you turn the key to start, routing the power back to the small terminal on the starter solenoid.

Your job will be to disconnect the battery, connect one line of your ohmmeter to the positive small post on the starter solenoid, and the other to large positive post on the solenoid where the large battery cable is connected. That should read an open circuit. When the ignition switch is turned to Start, the ohmmeter should show a closed circuit.

If it does not close, then you will know that you have lost the positive feed in the wiring harness or in the ignition switch. Since you have neither choke nor starter, it is indicated that if the wiring is the problem, it is on the way to the ignition switch.

The wiring in the harness is very light and cannot supply power to accessories, so if you overload it, you can harm it. More often, the friction of constant movement wears the wiring near the engine until it shorts and burns through the wire. Most frequently it is the ignition switch itself that causes problems.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

i'm leaning towards it being the ignition switch myself. of course i'm just guessing, but since day one....that was one of my guesses on what the problem would be.........it was the only thing that would explain both the starter and the choke not working to me. (I didn't even know there was a 20 amp inline fuse).

so is this a hard thing to replace???

like I said before.I have another set of controls, but i'm not even sure if I have a key for them, and I would rather use the controls I have (currently my tilt/trim toggle is on the dash where I like it, the other controls have it on the throttle arm).

also, I guess while I have the controls apart, I shuold ask about any tips you may have to hook up the tach and the trim gauge that came with the 90 hp.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

ok, so last weekend I was having issues taking apart the controls so that I could take a closer look at the ignition.........there must have been a hidden screw somewhere that I just couldn't see on the last cover, cause I couldn't get it off. anyway, on whim, I decided to turn the key, and to my surprise, the engine turned over. the choke was also working. I guess with my fiddleing around back there, I must have bumped something. I ended up putting everything back together, knowing full well that It's not really fixed...but not knowing how to proceed any further myself, and knowing that in an emergancy, I can always just jump the solenoid again. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best...........even though I know some of you may not approve.

so while I was in there, I noticed a short grey wire that was not attached to anything. I decided to try to hook up an old tach that I had, to see if it would work, thinking the grey wire was my signal wire. I ran the battery wire dirrectly to my battery, and the ground wire dirrectly to negative on the battery. I wasn't going to actually mount it until I knew it worked. I didn't get a chance to test it until today because I was having garden hose issues (I have a new dog who likes to chew..........lol). Motor started up fine today.......i'm glad about that, but the tach didn't work.......never installing a tach before, I can only assume I did it correctly, I tried to follow the tips I read on a thread here. maybe it was just shot.

My biggest issue today was this. I'm not positive this is actually something to worry about, because the engine really ran well, but, water was coming into the engine houseing (I don't know what else to call it.......under the cowl) I'm not sure exactly where it was coming from as it was starting to get dark when I noticed it. I don't think this is supposed to happen, but perhaps it's just because I had the water pressure turned up too high?? please somebody tell me thats the case?!?!?!?

thanx for reading and for your adivce.

 

[wavrider]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

Leaking water in the cowl?

First re test in good light.

Look for the two hoses coming from the head, se if the hose clamps are good or if you have a leaking hose.

thermostat cover gasket can also leak.

Water in the cowl is not a normal condition.

After re test if you need suggestions or advice might want to start a new thread with this problem.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

allright, I'll see if I can make time to take a good look at it tommorrow. I hope it's something simple. could this explain why last year I sometimes seemed to have an oily residue under my cowl and in the water well? I premix my gas. I was never really worried about it, but now i'm starting to. OH, I don't think I mentioned..........I have a 1992 90hp evinrude, and it seems to run really well right now.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

ok.....so I just came in from the backyard. My motor started up fine, but I found out where the water was comeing from. It was pouring out of one of the cylinders. looking from behind the motor, it was the bottom left cylinder. HOw bad is this guys, I was really hoping for something simple. p.s. I know the faulty cylinder is at least getting spark......lol. I hate that feeling.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

Probably a blown head gasket. But get the cylinder head off as soon as you can so that you can dry everything out and keep the cylinder well oiled. If you can't get to it real quick, tilt the engine up, take the plugs out and pour some oil in that cylinder and turn the flywheel to spread it around. Then set the motor in the running postition so that it can drain as well as possible.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

I did a compression test, and all cylinders seem to be around 100.....98-102 to be more acurate. I'm not sure if I'm using the proper terms, but is the area around the spark plug called a water housing??? or somthing like that?? anyway, I have just come back from the marina with a new 3 dollar gasket (gotta love that) and am in the process of putting it on, cause thats where it seems to be leaking from to me. I'll fill you in when i'm done.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

everything back together...still the same problem, so i'm off to the marina to go buy a head gasket. hope they're still open.

 

[sprouticus1]

Re: 2 solenoids gone?, or control issues?

the guy at the marina was pretty sure it wasn't the head gasket.he figured maybe something was warped wtih the thermastat housing (or whatever it's called), he recomended using some gasket maker in the problem area, after I check to make sure there was a gap when I put a straight edge to it. (which there was). so now I wait until tommorrow for the silicon to cure before I can start her up to see if my fix worked. the good news is that last may I guess I insured the trailer for a year, and I still have 6 weeks of insurance left, so if everything goes well, i'm heading out tommorrow!