2+2 motors

badfish888

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
43
i know, questions, but this forum i awesome and full of info. and thats what there for, posting rite?


any way, i have a 2002 125 salt water. with the 2+2, does any one here have a motor like that? Other than the horrible idle and the almost impossible smooth take off? has any one had any (2+2) issues? I have no complaint about mine.

ive also read in the dark corners of the internet that the only reason 2 cylinder dont fire at low rpm is the lack of a low idle jet in the carbs? and if you install low idle jets and retune the motor, it will function like a normal 4 cyl. any truth to this.
 

Faztbullet

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
15,670
Re: 2+2 motors

Other than the horrible idle and the almost impossible smooth take off? has any one had any (2+2) issues?
Its not set up correctly or has some minor fuel related issues....
he only reason 2 cylinder dont fire at low rpm is the lack of a low idle jet in the carbs?
Sort of correct as the carb internal metering is different.....
if you install low idle jets and retune the motor, it will function like a normal 4 cyl. any truth to this.
No... it will run like crap. When this system is operating correctly and sync and linked properly it will idle fine and you will not notice transition from 2 to 4 carbs. If correctly set up you would never know engine does this unless you where told so. The biggest time this show up if engine is over propped and trying to pull skiers as that rpm band is in the transition range and is easy fix by dropping prop 2 pitch just for sking/tubing
 

badfish888

Seaman Apprentice
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Feb 2, 2012
Messages
43
Re: 2+2 motors

(When this system is operating correctly and sync and linked properly it will idle fine and you will not notice transition from 2 to 4 carbs.)

so if i take it to a shop and have them "sync" the carbs, will that fix my problem?
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,770
Re: 2+2 motors

Having link&sync and carb adjustment would fix the problem -- IF that's the problem. Carbs that are due for a rebuild will not perform properly if they are gummed up. So nobody can guarantee that the problem you are having is due to misadjusted carbs or that the engine needs a link&sync operation. Think about this as YOU, the owner of a service shop: A customer (you also) comes in and says do a carb adjustment and link&sync please! You get the boat back and you still have a crappy idle and unacceptable throttle response. The customer (you) comes back and says "you didn't fix the problem". The shop owner (you) says "we did what you told us to do"! And the discussion goes on from there.
 

badfish888

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
43
Re: 2+2 motors

this is true, but, if my carbs are dirty, i think the boat would run rough all around, and wouldnt make a diff for the horrible transition from 2-4 cylinders. you deff have a valid point, but i know they havend been syncd since it was new so it couldnt hurt, if it still runs like dog crap, then ill get them cleaned. any one know a round about price for a dealer carb syncing?
 

justchecking

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
152
Re: 2+2 motors

This is what I found in my 1991 Merc 115 (2+2) carbs. It's easy to take them off an clean them. I haven't linked and synched this one yet, but my 84 was easy.
 

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justchecking

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 1, 2010
Messages
152
Re: 2+2 motors

For the 84 there is a link and sync thread (a sticky?) here on iBoats. I read the thread a couple of times and then did it, it wasn't hard, it didn't cost anything, and when I was done the motor ran great and I knew it was right. When I first read the instructions, I thought, oh man, do this do that? But when I was standing by the motor with the instructions in hand it all made sense.

I haven't done the 91 yet. I am rebuilding that motor (see the carb pics) or my thread "91 Mercury 115 Rebuild". But I read through those instructions and I know I can link and sync that motor myself also.

When I cleaned my 91 carbs I soaked them for an hour in a gallon can of carb cleaner (should have done 2 hours). Then I ran a nylon cable tie around those dip tubes to clean them out for sure. Then I used compressed air to blow them out. They were actually easier to clean than the 84 carbs.

I'm real interested to see how the 4 cyl 1991 compares to the 6 cyl 1984 and how the transition from 2 to 4 cylinders will work. (I'm doing the rebuild for personal interest....):D
 

pokman

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Dec 6, 2009
Messages
192
Re: 2+2 motors

I had a 94 125 and I had the same problem. I had the carbs cleand and synced and still the same idled like crap and when going through slow now wakes she ran rough and like you the transition from 2cyl to 4 was always boggy then hooked up. I talked to to others that I met that had the same motor both 125's one was a mariner and one was a 99 merc. Both said theres ran the same as mine from the first day they had them. Always just seemed to me that when only the top two cylinders were running the total balance of the motor was off a little. It was annoying but that motor had good power for a 4 banger,and they seem to be bullet proof motors.
 

bassrascal02

Cadet
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
17
Re: 2+2 motors

@badfish888- I have a 94 115hp version of the 2+2 engine. The carbs I don't think had ever been cleaned so... With the help from the service manual I was able to remove carbs and clean them up as you described. But until now I had not heard of "syncing" the carbs. I haven't had a chance to run the boat in the water since my rebuild so now I'm worried it's going to run like poo. I'll check the service manual and see how it addresses this...as per usual the brains on this forum are better than the printed text so keep asking questions.
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: 2+2 motors

Anytime the carbs are removed for any reason, they MUST BE linked and sync'd again. Cleaning carbs is one of THE most important maintenance items in keeping your motor happy and performing well, once done and all adjustments are made to perfection, your motor should run fine for many years as long as your fuel quality is good, you have a water separating fuel filter, and you keep using your boat.

Service manuals are available on-line thru links found in the 'sticky' posts at the top of this forum, check them out, get a copy of your manual and read it carefully, a couple of times.

After the carbs are cleaned, follow the detailed directions to sync the carbs, and link them to the timing lever.

Pay particular attention to the idle mixture on the top two carbs, the throttle pick-up roller adjustment as well as the accelerator pump adjustment. These are the three things that make the greatest difference in how well your motor makes the transition from 2 to 4 cyls. Once dialed in you will feel like you have a totally different motor installed.
 

ticondo46

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
31
Re: 2+2 motors

Anytime the carbs are removed for any reason, they MUST BE linked and sync'd again. Cleaning carbs is one of THE most important maintenance items in keeping your motor happy and performing well, once done and all adjustments are made to perfection, your motor should run fine for many years as long as your fuel quality is good, you have a water separating fuel filter, and you keep using your boat.

Service manuals are available on-line thru links found in the 'sticky' posts at the top of this forum, check them out, get a copy of your manual and read it carefully, a couple of times.

After the carbs are cleaned, follow the detailed directions to sync the carbs, and link them to the timing lever.

Pay particular attention to the idle mixture on the top two carbs, the throttle pick-up roller adjustment as well as the accelerator pump adjustment. These are the three things that make the greatest difference in how well your motor makes the transition from 2 to 4 cyls. Once dialed in you will feel like you have a totally different motor installed.

Guys,

This was the subject matter of another thread on iboats forum. As mentioned elsewhere, the way the 115 and 125 4-cylinder 2-stroke Mercs were set up was the following: only the top two carbs have idle jets; the lower two cylinders just manage to suck in a bit of fuel at idle, through the main jets, in order to remain lubricated. But they don't really get any power on idle. However, don't be mistaken. Other than idle, there is actually no transition from 2 to 4-cylinder operation. What happens is that as you move forward the throttle lever, initially you only get spark advance, and the engine gains revs with whatever fuel it can get from the top two cylinders (the ones with idle jets). The four throttle valves remain firmly closed. When you push the lever to approx. 2000 RPM, hell breaks loose because all four carbs open simultaneously. In addition, there is plastic snail cam on the throttle linkage that presses a button on the accelerator pump. This little pump is connected via plastic tubes to the lower two cylinders, and gives them a squirt of juice to help them gain RPM. If there wasn't this extra little squirt, the engine would stumble and cough a bit until the lower two cylinders manage to get enough "rich" fuel mixture. In practice, this is an engine that you cannot keep running at anywhere between 2000 and 2700 RPM. It's either more, or it slowly falls back to below 2000.

Having said that, once you get used to it, this really one great motor. Mine is upwards of fifteen years old, has a thousand + hours on it (and in salt water, too) and runs absolutely like a top. Regarding carbs and synching and all that, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. I have never taken off my carbs, and never had a problem. However, I do make sure to empty the carbs at the end of each season (there's a drain plug on each float bowl), I pump out the fuel tank bone-dry and I don't use ethanol-laced gas (and by the way, I don't use stablizer either 'cause there ain't no fuel left in my boat during the winter). The piston heads are clean as whistles, no carbon build-up. The only thing that needs a very occasional tuning (once every three or four seasons, no more) are the two idle screws and idle. It's fairly straightforward for those who know the tricks. You can get 900 RPM in neutral, with a comfortable rumble and no stalling (make sure you have clean spark plugs, well gapped and the right ones: NGK BPZ8 HN10). The trick is that you MUST tune these idle screws with the LU in the water (don't drop that screwdriver in the water!). Doing it on muffs is a waste of time; there isn't enough exhaust back-pressure to do a decent job.

BTW, for those who have the official Mercury manual: I have it, but it does not give the slightest word of explanation on the strange 2+2 carburetor setup. Looks as if nobody at Mercury wanted to take ownership of such a bizarre design... Regardless, if you maintain this motor properly, it should work forever. More than what a lot of people would say of newer 4-Strokes...

Happy sailing!
 
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