1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

[soburke]

Hi,

I have a 1993 commercial 100 v4 that we took out today. Prior to today I started it three times in the driveway, and we started it at the dock this morning and then turned it off....started it again and took it out for at least 1.5 hours on the lake (washington)...we turned it off and floated for about an hour and it would not and will not start!!! I have a separate batter for the accessories on the boat (lights, radio, etc.).

Plenty of gas, battery was at 11.9 volts, and the starter was working during every crank but it just would not catch....the fuel line is on right as I unscrewed that and pumped some gas through to make sure it was clear but I have not checked any thing further....


Thoughts?

Thanks!
SOB

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

11.9 volt reading at the battery indicates that the battery is basically shot. Check your wiring first, primarily the battery cables, and have your battery load tested.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

Why would that mean it is shot? What size and voltage battery is necessary for this size of a motor, do you know?

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

It's not about size in this case. The engine has to be turning at 300 RPM for your ignition system to work and a 12 Volt battery reading 11.9 is not going to get you there.

Batteries should be maintained at a minimum of 2.10 volts per cell or 12.60 volts for a 12 volt battery. Your reading indicates either an extreme discharge or a failing battery.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

wow, ok...now that helps me understand why and what.....do you have a battery recommendation? I bought this at costco and the guy at west marine told me to take it back right away that he had several people in complaining...he added that he did not care where I bought a battery but just to take this one back...I have a manual but it does not outline what size and type of battery to buy...

What is odd is that I only have the engine battery cable running to this battery, as mentioned in my original post....

btw, thank you so much...ignorance sucks.
SOB

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

First off, any battery needs to be kept charged and we need to know that the charging system's rectifier (which converts the a/c voltage from your stator to d/c voltage for keeping the battery charged) is working. When you have the engine running, the voltage at the battery should be higher than when the motor is not running.

Secondly, any weakness in the cables or connections from the battery to the starter creates resistance, which will cause overcharging and underpowering. It will also put the diodes in the rectifier at risk and possibly destroy it.

Resistance in a wiring circuit will create heat, so you can usually spot problems by touch after cranking. Unlike car cables, the cables to an outboard are subjected to a great deal of flexing, and they frequently degrade inside of the cable sheathing where you cannot see it. A good cable will bend easily, with no crunching sounds or feel, and will not show corrosion near the connections. It will also be cool to the touch after cranking.

The battery recommendation for a starting battery will be a minimum of 360 CCA or 465 MCA with a minimum reserve of 90 minutes (50 Amp hours). I would recommend that you try for 500 CCA and use only a marine starting battery if you will use that battery almost exclusively for starting the motor. No maintenance car batteries are not recommended.

I have had good luck with marine batteries from Sears, Walmart and West Marine. I'm sure that others are fine as well - but I have not tried them.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

you need at least 750 CCA battery for the 4 cylinder.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

OK, that is interesting you mentioned the heat....after we had been cranking the engine a fair amount hoping for the start, and it almost did a few times, I switched the engine cables from this 'starter battery' to my accessory battery, which we had been using for the radio and lights etc. for several hours at that point.

It did not start the motor but what I noticed was that I could barely touch the wing nut on the positive (red) line it was so so hot. I assumed it was from the current draw from the starts but perhaps there is a short or something in those battery lines?

So now the next question, do you buy lines at an automotive supply store, wall mart, west marine, or make them from line at Lowes etc?
SOB

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

loose connections cause resistance, causing the heat at the connection, and poor transfer of the electricity.

90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

The best cables are expensive because they are made from very fine high quality coated copper so that the wire can take a lot of flexing without breaking the idividual fibers. Outboard manufacturers' cables are generally the best.

Automobile cables are not moved around, so they are made differently and will not last very long if used on an outboard.

I've had good luck with the cables from this company: http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Custom Cable Assembly/

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

you need at least 750 CCA battery for the 4 cylinder.

The minimum 360 CCA recommendation for a starting battery is straight out of the factory service manual for his engine. I would go higher on marine dual purpose deep cycle batteries, but the factory recommendation for a V8 is only 500 CCA for a starting battery.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

OK, I have pulled off the battery cables and checked them thoroughly, did a voltage drop test and they appear to be fine....took them to my local boat guy and he said they are good as well. I took off the small positive cable from the solenoid to the starter and will polish it up as well.

I returned the costco battery and purchased a West Marine 1000CCA starter battery as I have the other deep cycle battery for my accessories. I am going to reinstall everything this afternoon. See is it starts and then head out on the water to see if we are good...I am not sure how else to test this out given the last situation occurred after we were out for a couple of hours and then stopped...thanks for everyone's input thus far.
Stephen

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

You might want to be sure the rectifier is working before you go too far.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

ok, I have a brand new 1000 cold crank starter battery, polished all the battery cable terminals.....AND IT STILL DID NOT START...ugh.

of course it is 70 degrees and sunny out too

thoughts?
SOB

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

Describe the exact steps in your starting procedure, please.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

Absolutely,

Water
I first hooked up the clam shell to the engine and hose, and turn on the water

Fluids -
prior to turning the key - I give the gas bulb three pumps and check the oil bladder to make sure it is firm or give it a pump.

Remote -
Check to make sure the handle is in nuetral
I give the primer handle three pumps up and down (lever nearest the boat), push the key in a couple of times
and turn the key.

I think that is it, lately I am adding a prayer!
SOB

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

Pushing the key in activates a valve that lets fuel from the fuel pump bypass the carburetor and go directly to the intake manifold. The fuel pump does not work unless the engine is being cranked. Pushing the key in before you crank the engine won't do anything unless you keep the bulb in your hand and keep squeezing it.

The small red handle on the primer solenoid needs to be aligned with the cylindrical body of the primer solenoiid and left that way except for emergencies.

Try this:

Squeeze the bulb until it is firm;

If you have a warm-up lever on your remote control, turn it up and leave it up until the engine fires, this advances the timing and gives a little throttle;

PUsh the key in and keep it held in while you crank until the engine fires;

If the engine falters after firing, push the key in lightly until the engine warms up.

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

I am not sure what a warm up lever is? It sounds like the thing I was thinking was a primer (at least what the guy told me) it is a piece of plastic on a hinge and it runs the length of the remote, goes up and down and clicks into place flush with the remote?

I will go try the steps you've outlined now, thank you so much for the suggestions.
Stephen

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

thanks for the tips, but it did not work.....it keeps trying to start, seems like it was going to catch a couple of times but did not.....what I am also noticing is gas trickling out of the area where the propeller is (running with the water down the street) I know this is where the exhaust goes as well but I did not expect to see the gasoline....
Stephen

 

[soburke]

Re: 1993 100 commercial v4 - started and now won't start

What is odd is that it started four times before this, ran at different RPMs for a couple of hours on the lake and then wont start again...the starter is turning the flywheel....if replacing the solenoid would help, I will do that too....it is only 25$ or so and looks pretty straight forward!

And btw, I appreciate all of the help, very much.
SOB