1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

[Panzera]

Hej,

i've got a problem with a 1988 (?) Sea Ray 90hp engine (should be a Mercury engine)
S/N is: B278058
It is a 3 cyl. 2 Stroke

I hope you can follow my explanations (my native language is german... )

The problem:
Everytime i'm turning the key a beep sounds. This beep is normally a constant beep and every now then it changes into an interrupted beep.
The starter turns and the engine "tries" to start but won't fire up.

Now what i've tried until now:

I know that a constant beep normally is a problem with the heat sensor and an interrupted beep concerns the oil level sensor right?
Well i've unplugged the heat sensor (someone told me that should work if it is broken). The beep stops, but the engine won't fire up.
The oil level sensor is in place an works.

- I've checked the compression on all cylinders -> ok
- 3 new spark plugs -> sparks are fine on all 3 plugs
- Fuel and oil pumps are working
- Fuel hoses are new
- Carburators are clean (what is the correct setting for the mixture screw? I've turned it 1.5 times out)
- Mercury and kill switch are working correct
- Solenoid for the choke is also working

So that is what i've tried and checked.

Have i missed anything?

I have a suspicion of the alarm module not working correctly...
-> As i unplugged the wire from the heat sensor to stop the beep i noticed that there are 3 wires put together.
A brown wire coming from the alarm module, a brown wire leading to the wirering harness and the black cable coming from the heat sensor.
If i unplug the black wire the beep stops. If i then connect the two brown cables the beep starts again...
Is this a normal behaviour? Shouldn't the beep be started by the black cable?


I hope you can help me solving this problem!
(Still 2 weeks left till holiday...)

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Your s/n comes up as:

SEA RAY - (100 H.P. (1988 )) Note 100 hp.
Serial No: 0B278085 Model No: 9100412TD

0B278085 is a four cylinder engine. Can you re-check the s/n or confirm it by locating a disc like this on the RH side of the power head?

http://imageshack.com/a/img84/8224/391496208.jpg

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Oh ok, i looked it up and i'm sorry...
I had a mistake in the S/N.

The correct S/N is: B278058


http://imageshack.com/a/img843/3417/qmv1u.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img834/230/0t8f.jpg

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

No problem,that number comes up as:

90 90 3-cyl 0B240451 0C099999 1988 USA

From here:

Mercury 2-takt, 3-cyl, 60 - 90 hp, produktions?r, modellguide

Parts List:

70/75/80/90 HP (3 CYLINDER) - Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. Parts Lookup

The service manual you require is 90-13645-2. If you do not have this manual, see my message to you in notifications at the top of this page. Section 3B of the manual contains all the testing for the various models, with or without a test switch and with or without a warning module.

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Thanks Gerry!
I was looking for this sparepart list and drawings, but the German Distribution told me they aren't allowed to publish them...

No i don't have a manual
Did You Write me a Message already? In my notification center is no unread message.

Greets
Arne

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Arne;

It is there now.

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Alright...

I wanted to check the alarm system today, turned the key to run position and... no beep at all.
After a few times doing this the normal beep (to see if the horn and alarm module is working) sounds.
I'm confused now that the continuous beep is gone...
This should be an indicator for a broken alarm module right?

Next question is: Does the alarm module effect the starting of the engine (like the mercury/kill switch) or is it just to warn that there is something wrong?
Do i have to replace the module to get the engine running?

I've also checked the igintion timing which wasn't even near to what it should be.
I did the adjustment like it is said in the manual but the engine still won't fire up.

In my despair i tried to start it with the help of "Start Pilot" (is this a common name in english ?) (i mean some kind of ether you spray into the carburators to get the engine running for a few seconds).
But also this doesn't effect the engine.

Is there another possibility?

Thank you so far!

Greetings

Arne

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Arne;

The warning module may be bad but it shouldn't affect starting the engine.

Does your warning system have the test switch or just the key function? If you just have the key function, the warning system should beep when the key is turned to the ON position as a self test of the system. Have you done the testing per section 3B-7 of the manual?

When you pump your primer bulb does it firm up or remain soft?

The only thing you should use to try and help the engine start is the same fuel mixture you use in the fuel tank.

Have you checked to verify that you have spark?

Fuel Tank vent open?

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

The warning module just got the key function.
I did the testing yesterday (without the manual because someone told me this should work) as it occured for the first time. The result was: Disconnected the black cable -> still beeping; disconnected the tan cable -> beep stops
So this means that the module is not working correct...

BUT as i wanted to test it today (with the section 3B-7) the module worked just fine! Just a normal beep when the key is turned to ON position.

The primer bulb firms up.

I've rechecked the spark plugs today and yes sparks are there. The timing light i used today for adjustment verifies that the coils work fine.

Fuel tank vent is open
I've put fresh fuel in it this morning (50:1) for testing

Greetings

Arne

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Arne;

Prior to the work you performed in post #1 was the engine starting and operating normally?

Did you physically pull a sparkplug and check to see how much spark?

You said in your first post that you had cleaned the carbs. Did you check the float heights when you did this?

May sound silly but I presume that when you try to start, the engine is turning over satisfactory when you hit the start. And are you pushing in on the key to engage the choke?

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Well.. this is the question i can't answere...
The father of my wife bought the boat last year and trusted in the seller who said that it works fine...
As we wanted to go for a ride (about 3 weeks after he bought it) it started fine.. Then we put the idle throttel down to normal and the engine dies...
Til now it hasn't fired up again.

Yes i pulled all 3 sparkplugs and "grounded" them to see if a spark comes.
But what do you mean by "how much"? Is there an indicator of how "strong" a spark should be?

If i remember right, i was about 10 to 11mm (the manual says it should be about 11.1mm) is that too much difference?

Yes the engine turns over normally
I'm doing the cold start procedure as it is said in the manual...

Also the solenoid of the enricher is working (you can hear the "click" on pushing the key in.

Arne

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

No, that spark should be fine which leads to verifying that we have fuel. Though you can hear the click of the enricher solenoid, have you done the flow check as seen under 3A-25 to ensure fuel is getting through to the carbs.

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Yes did that, i followed the fuel hoses til the carburators and disconnect at the possible Pointe to See if there is fuel coming.
What i don't know is if the fuel filter is mounted correctly.
It. is not mounted vertically but at an angle of approx. 40 degrees.
There is a little air bubble in it. Can this affect the fuel flow?
Because fuel is getting to the end of the hose at the carburator...

Arne

 

[carholme]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Arne;

If fuel is getting to the carburetors, it is obviously not getting through the carbs and if the bulb is squeezing up firmly. either the carb float heights are not set correctly or there is a problem with the inlet needles. One wouldn't expect to have a mechanical problem with all three carbs, therefore I would be examining the float heights as described under 3A-17. As well, you should locate the source of the leak which is allowing air to get into the system.

Gerry

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Well, fuel is getting through the carburators otherwise the sparkplugs won't be wet, right?
I meant the fuel is getting to the carburators without a problems (no clogged hoses)

I definetly can say that the inlet needles are not blocked.
I will demount the carbs tomorrow to check the float hights and recheck the needles.

Is it possible that the air in the filter is occured by the non-vertical position?
I will replace the fuel hoses with transparent hoses to see where the bubbles come from

Arne

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Hey Gerry!

I wanted to answere you earlier, but i had to work longer than normal.


Today i dismounted the carbs. Float level is ok.
Then I dismounted the fuel filter to eliminate the air bubble and replaced complete fuel hoses.
This all didn't affect the starting...
Then I thought about what you said and injected fuel with a needle directly through the carbs -> no affect
the sparkplugs did get wet but not as soaking wet I would have expected on how much fuel I injected...
So i injected fuel through the sparkplug hole and tried to fire up... Nothing!!!

So i re rechecked the sparks... result:no sparks an all 3 cyl. !
I couldn't believe this as the first and second test was positive...
I tested the timing light to ensure that the is no signal coming to the coils, but the light worked and simulated the ignition perfectly...
I thought that it is maybe a problem with resistance or with the electric supply so i checked the stator resistance is within the range!
Then i checked the resistance of the coils to see if they are fine (sadly i have no tester for kV range). The resistance was close to 0...
But what i discovered during unplugging the leads and sparkplug cable was horrible!

The preowner glued (!) the sparkplugcable into the coil! He glued it where normally contact is needed so that there was a nice isolating surface between coil and cable! That is the reason why sometimes sparks are fine and sometimes there are no sparks.

Well i renewed the cables and hoped it would work now... Guess what! It didn't..

So i tested the switch box.
At this point i don't know where the failure is.
I only got a tester capable of 250V (shame on me..)
This tester gave results which are way of the range noted in the manual! About 2V instead of 100and higher
Is this the failure of my tester which is not for 400V use?
Or is it the switch box?

I want to lean a 400V meter tomorrow to see if it was the box!
Finally i think the end is near!

Greetings
Arne

 

[Panzera]

Re: 1988(?) Sea Ray 90hp starting issue

Ok i tested the new sparkplugcable today -> got a spark on cyl. 1; no spark on cyl. 2 and 3
Then i testet the coils again -> resistance nearly zero; no voltage on terminal + to terminal - ! how is this possible if a spark comes ???

i also tested the trigger:
Between brown trigger lead and white/black lead: 1220 ohms
Between white trigger lead and white/black lead: 1214 ohms
between violet trigger lead and white/black lead: 1230 ohms
-> so the trigger should be fine!

then i tested the stator:
Between blue stator lead and red stator lead (low speed): 3700ohms
Between red stator lead and engine ground (hi speed): 140ohms
-> stator also seems to be fine

finally i tested the switch box:
ADI Test seq. 1-A (coils): 0V
ADI Test seq. 2-A (Stop Circuit): 36V
ADI Test seq. 3-A/4-A (Stator low speed): 6V
ADI Test seq. 5-A (Switch Box Bias): 1-2 V
-> so this means that the box is faulty right?

i just want to make it sure that the box is broken, cause it is quite expansive

Greetings
Arne