1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

[bcronk09]

Hello All! I am new to this forum. I hope everyone had a great holliday season and I hope everyone is ready for summer!

I am buying a 1987 Wellcraft Classic 192 Cuddy. The owner says it ran good until the end of last summer when he started having what he thinks is starter problems. He says a mechanic friend of his confirmed this. He said when he tries to start the motor it turns over too slow to start. Sometimes he could rap the starter and it would turnover faster then start and sometimes he could just let it sit for a minute then try again. He thought origionally that the battery was no good so he bought a new one but that didn't fix the problem. I asked him if he could hear the bendix gear engage and explained to him that this would sound like a clunk as soon as he turned the key. He stated that the bendix is engaging because the motor starts turning it just sound like it's turning slow as if the battery was dead. When and if it turns up faster the motor will crank.

Does this sound like a bad starter to you guys? I have experience with small engines and outboard motors and this sounds like what happens when a battery doesn't have enough charge followed by a dead battery. Obviously since he replaced the battery, that's not the case. I just don't want to buy the boat if it has problems other than starter issues.

Thanks all and happy boating!

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

I am buying a 1987 Wellcraft Classic 192 Cuddy. 1987 Mercruiser 165

Ayuh,.... Don't buy it.... It's the dreded 470,...
Mercruiser's redheaded bastard stepchild they've Abandoned...

 

[searay3]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

A number of things can cause your issue. It would take some time to troubleshoot and the previous owner letting you put wrenches to it. Condition of the battery/cables/connections, starter motor, issues with the outdrive just to name a few. Have you ever seen the boat run? If you can't run it out on the water, it's a complete gamble. Hate to sound negative, but, more times than not, if the boat won't run and he is selling it, it has more wrong with it than he wants to spend. Could be thousands.

 

[bcronk09]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

Well, I'm somewhat inclined to believe him that it runs. He's not trying to push it on me. He said he'd spend some time with me on the starting issue. I guess I'll clean the connections and take a voltage and amperage reading as we turn it over. Doe's anyone know how much current the starter should draw? I will also pull the plugs and see if it is easy to turn by hand. He said he didn't fog the cylinders last fall, could be some light rust in the cylinders. I should be able to see the prop turn and tell if it's not going into neutral and that's the cause.

Any other ideas? What is the deal with the abandonment of the '87 Merc 165? Is it really a horrible motor or what?


Thanks

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

Well, I'm somewhat inclined to believe him that it runs. He's not trying to push it on me. He said he'd spend some time with me on the starting issue. I guess I'll clean the connections and take a voltage and amperage reading as we turn it over. Doe's anyone know how much current the starter should draw? I will also pull the plugs and see if it is easy to turn by hand. He said he didn't fog the cylinders last fall, could be some light rust in the cylinders. I should be able to see the prop turn and tell if it's not going into neutral and that's the cause.

Any other ideas? What is the deal with the abandonment of the '87 Merc 165? Is it really a horrible motor or what?


Thanks

Any other ideas? What is the deal with the abandonment of the '87 Merc 165? Is it really a horrible motor or what? YES SEARCH!!!!! search mercuriser 470.

you will find many pages outlining the short comings of this motor.
if you haven't bought... RESEARCH this motor be for you go any farther

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

Those starters on that vintage have a rather long armature shaft which under stress, over time can cause the shaft to bend or break under the windings. This will cause the shaft to "wobble" and the armature will rub up against the field coils. Result: starter turns over very slowly. Starter replacement is in order. How do I know? Personal experience. Opinion of the "470". It is probably a poor choice for someone that is not mechanically inclined. Before buying have it THOROUGHLY checked out by a qualified mechanic. Good luck.

 

[bcronk09]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

Terry,

Thanks for the reply. Although I'm not a certified mechanic, I am well versed in engine repair, which is why I believe the starter is the issue. I just wanted some reassurance. However, I am not farmiliar with I/O drives and I'm gonna experience a little bit of a learning curve.

I certainly appreciate all of your help and hopefully I don't get myself in too much trouble. I don't think I'm gonna buy the boat if I can't get it started. I may just tell the guy to buy a starter and if that fixes the problem I'll buy the boat and reimburse him for the starter.

We'll see. Nonetheless, thanks for your time guys!

 

[oops!]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

read post number 2 again...
and the post by jaxandjill.

you are buying a very large headache.....

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

I am well versed in engine repair.....

Lots of guys really, REALLY don't like this engine, but you can run into problems with any 20+ year old engine, such as cracked blocks (not likely in a 470). They do tend to have head gasket problems, especially if they overheat, so you need to do a compression check when you get it running. The front cam seals WILL eventually leak and need to be replaced. The charging system is not good, but can easily be upgraded. The bottom end (crank, rods etc.) seems to be pretty strong, at least there has been very little discussions here about problems with it. The engine work that you would most likely encounter would be a head gasket replacement, and a cam seal replacement. A good long day's work for either job. Both have been discussed extensively on this forum. I have done both jobs with good success (so far), and I am certainly no master mechanic. Mine runs just fine.

 

[bcronk09]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

Ok guys, I believe you. I did some checking of my own and found out everyone agrees on the fact that the Merc 470 is $HI*.

I'm scrapping the idea. I have enough headaches! I'm looking at a '88 Bayliner Capri Cuddy 1902 or 1952. The guy took it on trade and wants it gone. He said it has a Volvo outdrive and starts easily.

Any thoughts?

 

[q5ka]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

There are some of us that likes the power to weight factor that these motors have. On the same note, if you are new to boats, I would also not recommend this engine to you. I had the same issue as you did and a new starter along with cleaning the wires took care of it. The problems of the 470/3.7l are well known. After you get done fixing all the issues the 470/3.7l, you can have a strong engine that gets decent fuel usage. But then again, to each their own. There are haters and lovers to everything. Go to a car show and ask Ford/Chevy/Mopar. Or show up at a Chevy meet and try to explain the differences of a 307 compared to the 305 and see how far you get. Problems can be fixed but as with every engine, its all about how it was maintained.

 

[gettin'even]

Re: 1987 Mercruiser 165 Slow Turnover Help!

Lots of guys really, REALLY don't like this engine, but you can run into problems with any 20+ year old engine, such as cracked blocks (not likely in a 470). They do tend to have head gasket problems, especially if they overheat, so you need to do a compression check when you get it running. The front cam seals WILL eventually leak and need to be replaced. The charging system is not good, but can easily be upgraded. The bottom end (crank, rods etc.) seems to be pretty strong, at least there has been very little discussions here about problems with it. The engine work that you would most likely encounter would be a head gasket replacement, and a cam seal replacement. A good long day's work for either job. Both have been discussed extensively on this forum. I have done both jobs with good success (so far), and I am certainly no master mechanic. Mine runs just fine.

There are some of us that likes the power to weight factor that these motors have. On the same note, if you are new to boats, I would also not recommend this engine to you. I had the same issue as you did and a new starter along with cleaning the wires took care of it. The problems of the 470/3.7l are well known. After you get done fixing all the issues the 470/3.7l, you can have a strong engine that gets decent fuel usage. But then again, to each their own. There are haters and lovers to everything. Go to a car show and ask Ford/Chevy/Mopar. Or show up at a Chevy meet and try to explain the differences of a 307 compared to the 305 and see how far you get. Problems can be fixed but as with every engine, its all about how it was maintained.

Good posts by these two 470 "veterans". These guys have summed up the 470 situation well. I like my 3.7, but couldn't really recommend it to someone else to buy.