1987 85HP Force, No spark

[Trux]

I recently purchased a 1987 85HP Force and can't get it to spark. I have new plugs. I pulled the Flywheel and cleaned any rust off the contacts on the stator and points. The three coils have no volts coming out of them. I tested the wires going into the CDI's and they barely move the needle on my multi-meter when set at 15 DCV. Not sure where to go from here. The previous owner said it ran good about two months ago when he took it off another boat. Unfortunatey I had no way to check it for spark prior to purchasing since it wasn't mounted to anything and the controls were disconnected.
I appreciate any help you guys can offer.

Thanks.

 

[moparman]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

General

1. Check for broken wires and terminals, especially inside the plastic plug-in connectors. We recommend that you remove the pins from the connectors and visually inspect them.
2. Check the flywheel for a broken or loose magnet.
3. Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT.
4. Visually inspect stator for burned or discolored areas. If found, replace the stator. If the areas are on the battery charge windings, it indicated a possible problem with the rectifier.

IF NO FIRE ON ANY CYLINDER:

1. Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK.
2. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.
3. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, readings should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
4. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

NO FIRE OR INTERMITTENT ON ONE CYLINDER:

1. Check stator and trigger resistance, trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets (DVA-5V or more), stator reads 680-800 ohms, DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow.
2. If readings are good, disconnect kill wire from one pack. If the dead cylinder starts firing, the problem is likely the blocking diode in the other pack.

NO FIRE ON TWO CYLINDERS:

* If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above.

ENGINE WILL NOT KILL:

* Check kill circuit in the pack by using a jumper wire connected to the kill wire coming out of the pack and shorting it to ground. If this kills the pack, the kill circuit in the harness or on the boat is bad, possibly the ignition switch.

COILS ONLY FIRE WITH THE SPARK PLUGS OUT:

* Check for dragging starter or low battery causing slow cranking speed. DVA test stator and trigger.

HIGH SPEED MISS:

1. DVA check stator voltage to each pack at high speed. If it exceeds 400 volts, replace the pack.
2. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires smoothly, replace the rectifier.

Two Cylinder Engines with Combination CD Module with Built-in Ignition Coils
(1984-1988)

NO FIRE OR INTERMITTENT ON ONE CYLINDER:

1. Check the stator resistance, you should read 680-800 ohms, DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow (Note - On some two cylinder engines, the stator has two blue wires and no yellow wire. The stator will read from blue to blue). All stator wires should read open to engine ground.
2. Check the trigger resistance, trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets (DVA-5V or more), and open to engine ground.
3. If readings are good, disconnect kill wire from one pack. If the dead cylinder starts firing, the problem is likely the blocking diode in the other pack

ENGINE WILL NOT KILL:

* Check kill circuit in the pack by using a jumper wire connected to the kill wire coming out of the pack and shorting it to ground. If this kills the pack, the kill circuit in the harness or on the boat is bad, or possibly the ignition switch.
try these suggestion i got off a site and see if they help

 

[Trux]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

Thanks for your help Moparman. I now have spark and the motor runs.

 

[Oldsquid]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

I keep seeing "disconnect kill wire at pack" Where or which wire is the "Kill wire"?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

Technically, from the pack it goes to the terminal board (at the engine block). This is the only place I can think of disconnecting the kill wire from the pack since it is hardwired within the pack. Generally, the kill wire from the pack is the white wire, one for each CD pack or unit.

 

[Oldsquid]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

Thank you much !!!

 

[Oldsquid]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

Problem is no spark. I suspected the ignition switch, changed it. The rest of the checks I made are : I changed the rectifier and added a regulator diode(14 v zener). Haven't had a chance to test it. I have 0 volts on the kill circuit with the ignition ON. I have the maintenance manual for the engine and discovered that the wiring matches a '88 motor even though the model # makes it a '87. Looks like someone has changed some of the components. I have one blue cdi and one black. The kill wire on the blue one is b/y and white on the black mod. I have 2 blue ignition coils and one black. Did some resistance check and they read as follows:
Ignition coil # 1 (blue) from input (from cdi) connector to spark plug cap 2.4K .
Coil # 2 (blue) 1 K.
Coil # 3 (black) 160 ohms.
Ignition coils to ground (input side) to ground is 0 ohms. I suspect the coils are a center tapped step up transformer or something like that. I didn't check plug wire to ground, but betting it is also 0 ohms.
I also read the trigger wires and they all fall within the correct range of 50 ohms and the stator resistance appears to also be correct. The tach registers when I crank the engine so I suspect the stator is good.
The wiring appears to be correct to the stbd (right) terminal strip if I use the '88 wiring diagram.
I've almost decided to go ahead and replace the ignition coils with CDI 182-4475R which is a replacement for F615475.
Is there a way to check the CDI mods?
If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears or eyes in this case.
(I don't even like boats)[/QUOTE]

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

A good tach signal is not necessary indicative of a good stator since there are two separate ckts within the stator, i.e. charging ckt and ignition ckt for the CDM's. Check for stator voltage output and trigger output before going any further. If you have stator output while cranking (150+ Vac) and trigger signal (1~4 Vac depending on model) then you can start looking for faulty CDM's or coils. But to do this you will need a DVA adapter for your multimeter (check ebay) to measure voltage output from CDM's and coils. If you do not have voltage output on either stator or trigger, visually check wires and connections up to and including under the flywheel.

 

[Oldsquid]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

I have a Fluke digital meter that will read 1kv and a peak/hold function. I understand that the ign coils put out around 30kv, is that correct?
I have checked under the flywheel and didn't see any burn or arc signs. All the connections appear to be good. I cleaned the magnets and recheck continuity which was good.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1987 85HP Force, No spark

Any voltage output readings from the stator and trigger? I understand resistance check can do the same thing but there's nothing like a voltage check for real results. The coils voltage is around 22K although it can be as low as 18K.