1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

[JBVolvo]

I replaced the water pump in the 4 HP, and two days later it slowed down and stalled on me. It stunk a bit. When I tried to restart, it started on the first pull but again slow down and stalled. This time I was no longer able to pull the cord.

I removed the cover to see if the cord was bound up inside, but it doesnt appear to be.

What'd I do? Did I screw up the water pump replacement? It seemed to go smooth without issue, and I thought I had surely done it correctly. There should only be oil in the lower unit right? I drained and filled that as well.

Am I screwed? Or is there a chance it can be fixed without a huge hit to the wallet?

What am I looking at?

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Welcome to Iboats, sorry to hear about the trouble. Was it putting water out when you had it running? Did you put the impeller in with the ears turned the right direction (which should be clock wise)?

Have you took the pull start assembly off and tried turning the flywheel by hand?

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Oil ONLY in the lower unit? Well, yes and no, you should have TCW-3 oil in the fuel at a 50:1 mix ratio and only lower unit lube in the lower unit.

Replacing the water pump impeller is a good idea making sure the impeller drive key is installed and the water tube properly fitted into the pump housing when you re-install the lower unit. Test motor in a barrel with water well above the cav. plate. You should see a spray of water from the midsection idle relief holes indicating water pump action. If you motor has a tell tale or pee stream, water should be flowing when running.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

If the engine will not turn while attempting to turn it at the flywheel what you could do is take and drop the foot off of the motor again and see if that isn't locked up instead of the power head.

In other words the foot could of siezed up instead.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Welcome to Iboats, sorry to hear about the trouble. Was it putting water out when you had it running? Did you put the impeller in with the ears turned the right direction (which should be clock wise)?

Have you took the pull start assembly off and tried turning the flywheel by hand?

What is the Year of the motor?

How do you know which way the ears are turned? The impellar I put in had straight ears...there was no curve whatsoever.

I have not tried to turn the flywheel by hand, but I doubt I could.
Its a 87

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Oil ONLY in the lower unit? Well, yes and no, you should have TCW-3 oil in the fuel at a 50:1 mix ratio and only lower unit lube in the lower unit.

Replacing the water pump impeller is a good idea making sure the impeller drive key is installed and the water tube properly fitted into the pump housing when you re-install the lower unit. Test motor in a barrel with water well above the cav. plate. You should see a spray of water from the midsection idle relief holes indicating water pump action. If you motor has a tell tale or pee stream, water should be flowing when running.

I mixed it 100:1 in the fuel, as thats what it called for.
It has the original Evinrude sticker right on it that says 100:1

What does the water tube look like? I don't know that I checked that.
I was told that this motor doesnt really have a tell tale. Is that wrong?

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

If the engine will not turn while attempting to turn it at the flywheel what you could do is take and drop the foot off of the motor again and see if that isn't locked up instead of the power head.

In other words the foot could of siezed up instead.

Is that my best "next step" ? If that is what happened what am I looking at?
Remove the lower unit? I can still turn the prop one way by hand..does that mean anything?

Whats the best and worst possible situations here?

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

That fuel mix ratio was changed back to 50:1, remove the 100:1 stickers.

The impeller should have straight 'arms' when new, they bend inside the impeller cup when installed. Using a bit of dish washing soap on the impeller blades when installing makes the job easier. The soap washes out when run.

If you do try turning the flywheel by hand, turn only clockwise, the same direction it turns when running.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

At best you might have a bad foot (where the prop and impeller housing is) and you might be able to find one on ebay (for example) for a decent price.

At worst you might actually have a bad motor/power head and it might be toasted beyond repair and good enough for a parts motor.

Just my 2 cents.

The water tube slides down into the water pump and it looks copper colored, this is what carries the water up to the power head.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

That fuel mix ratio was changed back to 50:1, remove the 100:1 stickers.

The impeller should have straight 'arms' when new, they bend inside the impeller cup when installed. Using a bit of dish washing soap on the impeller blades when installing makes the job easier. The soap washes out when run.

If you do try turning the flywheel by hand, turn only clockwise, the same direction it turns when running.

I doubt the 100:1 mix caused this right? Regardless (if it still works I'll change it to 50:1).
So in other words, there was no right or wrong direction when I put in the new impellar correct?

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

At best you might have a bad foot (where the prop and impeller housing is) and you might be able to find one on ebay (for example) for a decent price.

At worst you might actually have a bad motor/power head and it might be toasted beyond repair and good enough for a parts motor.

Just my 2 cents.

The water tube slides down into the water pump and it looks copper colored, this is what carries the water up to the power head.

How will I be sure its one or the other? I can remove the foot tomorrow afternoon to check it out.

I didnt notice the water tube. Maybe something was blocked? So pissed.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

To be honest with you I don't know what would happen if you didn't put the impeller in the right way, but I don't think it would pump water. I do know that in my service manual for a bigger motor that it says to make sure the impeller is turned in the right direction and it does show a picture of the impeller in the impeller housing and the ears do turn clock wise when looking at the housing (held in your hand upside down for example), that is the way the imepeller should be facing.

Yes I have changed a few imepllers out in my little bit of boat repair experience so far.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

To be honest with you I don't know what would happen if you didn't put the impeller in the right way, but I don't think it would pump water. I do know that in my service manual for a bigger motor that it says to make sure the impeller is turned in the right direction and it does show a picture of the impeller in the impeller housing and the ears do turn clock wise when looking at the housing (held in your hand upside down for example), that is the way the imepeller should be facing.

i dont think that applies to this one though

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Either way the problem at hand is that the motor is not turning over and does appear to be frozen or locked up.

If it was my motor, I would take the pull start assembly off check the flywheel. After that if it is still froze I would take the foot off when you get a chance and see if the flywheel turns after that.

I went through the same thing with my little motor, the power head was froze when I bought it and I took the lower unit off to make sure that the power head was the problem wouldn't you know that it was. My situation was a little different though my power head froze from sitting and now I got it freed up and I about got it running smooth.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Either way the problem at hand is that the motor is not turning over and does appear to be frozen or locked up.

If it was my motor, I would take the pull start assembly off check the flywheel. After that if it is still froze I would take the foot off when you get a chance and see if the flywheel turns after that.

I went through the same thing with my little motor, the power head was froze when I bought it and I took the lower unit off to make sure that the power head was the problem wouldn't you know that it was. My situation was a little different though mine froze from sitting and now I got it freed up and I about got it running smooth.

whats involved to take the pull start off and check the flywheel? I don't see any lower units on ebay for it

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

I doubt the 100:1 mix caused this right? Regardless (if it still works I'll change it to 50:1).
So in other words, there was no right or wrong direction when I put in the new impellar correct?

I wouldn't run at WOT at 100:1 but trolling is OK, that was their reasoning for the 100:1 , 50:1 is twice the oil, twice the lubrication.

As for the impeller, I slide the impeller down the shaft and seat it on the wear plate, making sure the impeller drive pin is in place. Try turning the impeller to be sure the pin has locked the impeller to the shaft, some play is normal. I then coat the inside of the impeller housing with dish soap and slide the housing down the drive shaft until it contacts the top of the impeller. Then press down on the housing and turn the drive shaft clockwise. The impeller arms will bend in the right direction and go into the housing. Keep pressing on the housing and turning the drive shaft until the housing is fully seated. Install the housing bolts. Make sure the copper water tube goes into the rubber grommet when you re-install the lower unit. Start the motor in a barrel with water well above the pump and check for a water spray from the 3-4 small holes on the rear of the midsection.

Are there any signs of the paint on the power head discolored from overheating??

Possible causes:

Impeller key not installed
Water tube not installed in top of pump (easy to miss)
Blocked water tube at powerhead (water tube grommet blockage)
Power head passages blocked, possibly from salt or debris of old impeller being pushed up into power head blocking water flow.

All can and will result in an overheat. Running motor with no oil in fuel can cause an overheat too (not your case.)

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

I'll need a model number and you may have to give me a couple of minutes and I'll return with the answer, and a link that will should show you a diagram once you put your year, make and model number in.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

I wouldn't run at WOT at 100:1 but trolling is OK, that was their reasoning for the 100:1 , 50:1 is twice the oil, twice the lubrication.

As for the impeller, I slide the impeller down the shaft and seat it on the wear plate, making sure the impeller drive pin is in place. Try turning the impeller to be sure the pin has locked the impeller to the shaft, some play is normal. I then coat the inside of the impeller housing with dish soap and slide the housing down the drive shaft until it contacts the top of the impeller. Then press down on the housing and turn the drive shaft clockwise. I impeller arms will bend in the right direction and go into the housing. Keep pressing on the housing and turning the drive shaft until the housing is fully seated. Install the housing bolts. Make sure the copper water tube goes into the rubber grommet when you re-install the lower unit. Start the motor in a barrel with water well above the pump and check for a water spray from the 3-4 small holes on the rear of the midsection.

I didnt pay attention to the tube going into the new grommet. Perhaps thats where I screwed it up. I coated the impellar with a light coat of oring grease and just pressed the housing down. I made sure the pin locked it into place. Im so bummed. It looks like its a new motor inside..barely ever used. It belonged to my great grandfather, and my Dad let me take it to use on the pond where I live.

What would a local marine shop charge me if I dropped it off for diagnosis and possible repair?

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

A repair shop can cost as much as $75 dollars an hour or as little as $45 an hour (at least around where I live). Now some do charge a flat rate for the job at hand and don't charge by the hour for labor.

Here is a link to look into for your pull start, there a so many models for that year 4hp. If yours is the type with the pull start built into the cowling (from what I see) then you should just be able to get to the flywheel after taking the cowling/hood off.

http://epc.brp.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=e&brands=ej&lang=e

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

A repair shop can cost as much as $75 dollars an hour or as little as $45 an hour (at least around where I live). Now some do charge a flat rate for the job at hand and don't charge by the hour for labor.

Here is a link to look into for your pull start, there a so many models for that year 4hp. If yours is the type with the pull start built into the cowling (from what I see) then you should just be able to get to the flywheel after taking the cowling/hood off.

http://epc.brp.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=e&brands=ej&lang=e

yea I'm pretty sure you have the access to the flywheel just by removing the cover. I don't think it'll turn by hand. I may have tried when I opened it up.
If in fact its the lower unit that siezed, could the parts inside be replaced? i.e. - could the shop "fix" the lower unit?

If its the head that seized, its junk right?