1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

[rauletta]

I have a 1985 Evinrude 140 v4. I have just purchased the boat & it comes with a checkered past. The current symptoms are the port side upper cylinder. The motor will idle, and fire on all but this cylinder. Once out in the water, the bottom port cylinder will quit, and the boat will only run on the starboard side cylinders (verified by removing and grounding the spark plug wirers.) <br /> I should mention that the VRO pump has been bypassed, apparently long before I purchased the motor, and I run a 50:1 mix. <br /> Now for the recent repair history:<br /> Before I bought the boat all 4 coils and wires were replaced to no avail. When purchased 3 weeks ago the boat would not idle. The top port and starboard cylinders were not firing at Idle. My good friend who is also a boat mechanic “ran some tests” and determined that the CDI, timer base and stator were bad. I replaced the CDI, & timer base (stator was not delivered yet) and there was no change, the engine still did not idle without throttle. <br /> At this point I began to use my mechanical ability. I determined that there was good spark at all cylinders. Compression was 125 lbs to all cylinders. I rebuilt the carbs. Lots of gunk in the mesh for the needle-seat intake. I placed an inline fuel filter. The boat at this point did idle, and ran stronger than ever but was not firing on the top port cylinder. After a short distance, both port cylinders stopped firing. There was spark to each port cylinder, and gas on the plugs. <br /> Thinking the plugs were wet fouled I replaced them. Nada.<br /> Squirting carb cleaner into the port side carbs (or starting fluid for that matter) bogged the motor, on the starboard side it did not.<br /> Thinking that the carbs were the problem I took them off, checked the floats, and reversed the carbs (top port moved to bottom port and visa versa.) The top port cylinder still did not fire! (not the carb right?). <br /> Now I am left with three possibilities that I can think of:<br /> -Carbon needs de-gunking will do first.<br /> -Reed valves<br /> -some funkey issue related to the disconnected VRO Pump. A couple of mechanics in my travels told me that the remaining hose from the VRO “may be sucking gas into the cylinder and flooding it out” But nobody suggested a fix. ? a new fuel pump without the VRO?? <br /><br />Thanks.

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

well I am beginning to think I'm All alone out there. Is there anyone out there? <br /><br />I seafoamed the motor (the and there was no change. The reed valves looked okay but were not pulled. They held the seafoam and when I turned the flywheel by hane the seafoam was pulled in. No gross abnormalities noted in the reeds. the trrottle body and both port side carbs were removed for the seafoam treatment. <br />Another mechanic told me that the crank seal may be bad??<br />I am going to check the the quality of the spark. If compromized I will consider the stator again.<br />I am seriously considering reconnecting the VRO oil injector to rule out this as the source.<br /><br />ray

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

One thing I noticed on mine when with a cylinder down is that if I take the plastic cover off the carbs, I notice that there is fuel spitting out towards me from the cylinder that isn't getting fuel. Makes sense because the fuel is going the wrong way... Anyhow, try removing the cover and see if you have fuel spitting out at you. If you do, then it's probably the reeds for that cylinder. I'll be replacing mine tomorrow to see if it helps. Also, when rebuilding the carbs, did you remove the high-speed orifaces in the bottom of the float bowl?? They're tough to get to and I had to grind a flathead screwdriver to get it to reach. If you haven't already done so, remove the orifaces and run a piece of mechanics wire thru it to make certain that it's clean. <br /><br />Are your idle mixture screws exposed?? One set of carbs I have they are and on another they are not. If yours are, check the manual to see what the baseline setting should be and make sure the one that is giving you trouble is correct.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I'm no expert with these things and everything I've learned about it has come from the folks on this forum and from the manual. I hope some of this helps.

 

[Brew2]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Hi Ray,<br /><br />I doubt the VRO has anything to do with it if you've narrowed the problem down to just one (or possibly 2) cylinders. The VRO mixes the oil and gas before being sent to the carbs (ie. every carb gets the same mixture). If there was a problem with it, I'd expect that every cylinder would be effected.<br /><br />Have you done a link and sync? I'm certainly no expect, but if your problem cylinders seem to have good fuel, spark and compression, the only thing left to check is timing.<br /><br />Hope that helps or at least gives you a few ideas.<br /><br />Good luck and keep us posted on how you make out. I'm fighting my own demons with my '86 140hp.<br /><br />Cheers.

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Seaman <br />Thanks for the responses.<br /><br />No idle mixture screws seen, nor are any mentioned in the SELOC repair manual for the plastic type IV carbs. <br /><br />There is a small mist that occasionally comes from all of the carbs, but nothind different with the bad cylinder.<br /><br />During te carb rebuild I was able to remove the Imtermediate and idle air bleed oriface screws and I blasted these. Also I did remove the High speed orifices and blasted this out. I did notice that one of the High speed orifices was a bit burred by the PO or his mechanic. I would think though that the thing would still idle (not sure) and besides I did swap the two carbs and still had the same problem with the TOP cylinder. <br /><br />I will replace this highspeed orifice.<br /><br />by the way the quality if the spark checked out equal, while cranking, in both good and bad cylinders (with spark tester 5 buck tool).<br /><br />any other suggestions

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Hmm.... Have you checked the reed valves?? Perhaps you have a stuck or damaged reed on that cylinder?? That's the route I'm chasing with mine tomorrow.

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

I would pull reeds and take a look... Like alot of us here.... this problem is out there... and about the only way to see if theres a difference is to pull them, if they look ok switch them around and see if the problem moves with the reeds.... If it does you've found your prob

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Brew2<br /><br />The VRO for the oil injector was plugged. I agree that the problem should not be isolated to a single cylinder.<br /><br />I have adjusted the throttle valve sync, pickup timing, Idle speed, and WOT. I have not yet adjusted the Max Spark advance (timing) bacause I havent gotton it to water yet. If you think this could be the problem then I will consider it. From my limited experience (mostly w/ 4 stroke motors in cars) if the timing was off the thing would not run or just run like crap. Can it fail to fire on one cylinder due to timing?<br /><br />thanks

 

[Brew2]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Ray,<br /><br />Like I said, I'm no expert. Maybe "timing" was the wrong word to use. What I was thinking was that maybe the "butterfly" (I think that is what it is called!?) for the problem cylinder isn't sync'd with the others. Manual should take you through the "sync" process, but if I'm understanding you right, you've already done that.<br /><br />I agree, the max spark advance wouldn't just effect one cylinder.<br /><br />If you've got fuel going to the problem cylinder(s) then it doesn't sound like a reed problem to me, but it certainly couldn't hurt to take a look at them and make sure.<br /><br />Not sure what else to suggest. If nothing else this will bump you back to the top where someone with more experience might see it!!<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Originally posted by Dave J Z:<br /> I would pull reeds and take a look... Like alot of us here.... this problem is out there... and about the only way to see if theres a difference is to pull them, if they look ok switch them around and see if the problem moves with the reeds.... If it does you've found your prob

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

I guess I will pull the reeds and swap them. Good Idea considering they cost $80 each and take a day to come in.<br /><br />I'll replace the old but apparently intact fuel line to the carb of the bad cylinder.<br /><br />I'm starting to wonder about the crank seals and crank sealing rings ( hope not, don't want to pull the motor.) <br /><br />The seafoam was pulled into the cylinder by just a hand crank of the flywheel throuth the reed valve so there must be some vacuum. Also the seafoam did not just creep through the reeds when the Reservoirs in the reed valves were full so they don't appear to be broken or stuck open.<br /><br />This has become a war. man against machine. I guess I can alwaws use the 140 as an anchor for a new boat.<br /><br />Brew2 - thanks for the input, I obviously have no clue either. Hey what happened to that dude that has 30+ years on eninrude ob's. Maybe he will have some answers.

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Replaced the intact but old fuel line to the bad cylinder - nada.<br /><br />re-checked the spark - this time withe engine running. 25k+/- volts to all cylinders.<br /><br />pulled the intake manifold, and inspected the reeds. there is no visable difference between the reed valves from any cylinder. all reeds were able to contain seafoam deep creep for a few seconds befoe beginning a slow drip out. All opened with a light pressure.<br /><br />when I turned the motor by hand w/o plugs, and placed my other hand over the cylinder intake ports (reeds out) there seemed to be less suction on the port side cylinders.<br /><br />I am really beginning to think the crank seals and crank sealing rings are the culpret.<br /><br />is there a better test for the crank seals and crank sealing rings?? Nothing in the SELOC repair manual on diagnosing this.<br /><br />Would I need to pull the powerhead off??<br /><br />any thoughts??

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

well I guess I have no other ideas. in the AM I will begin the crank seals and crank sealing rings. If anyone has another idea i'm open to suggestions.

 

[rauletta]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

anyone have an idea

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

another post with no ending

 

[mrcj001]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

Check the DVA output on the orange wires from the power pack while connected to the ignition coils. You should have a reading of at least 150V or more. If the reading is low on one cylinder, disconnect the orange wire from the ignition coil for that cylinder and reconnect it to a load resistor. Retest. If the reading is now good, the ignition coil is likely bad. A continued low reading indicates a bad power pack.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 1985 Evinrude VRO 140 one cylinder won't fire

another post with no ending

The OP has not been active since July 10th 2007.
The thread is almost 5 years old.
How did you "stumble" across this one ???