1984 Johnson 35hp Throttle/Carb/Timing sync

[xBoomhauer]

Long story short, picked up a Tracker Guide V14 with a 1984 Johnson 35hp 2 cylinder 2-stroke (J35RLCRR). The low speed needle retaining ring had disintegrated, so while I was replacing that I went ahead and removed/cleaned/rebuilt the carb. Now I have everything back together and am trying to get everything synced/adjusted properly.

I am referencing the OMC manual as well as Seloc manual 1302.

I am trying to set the "Throttle Pickup Adjustment" and "Throttle Control Rod Adjustment" according to the OMC manual. However, these settings seem to contradict each other. I really feel like I am missing something or misinterpreting the instructions.

For example:
Scenario 1, Throttle Pickup Adjustment
[1] I adjust the throttle control rod such that the carb begins to open just as the cam follower is between the two marks on the spark advance cam (this seems most important)

Since the throttle lever is not contacting the engine block when the carb reaches WOT, the carb continues to try to open past WOT and causes binding. Does the throttle lever need to rotate all the way to the engine block to advance WOT timing properly?

Cam follower leaves cam right between these marks as carb valve begins to open, and contacts the cam between the marks as it returns to the cam.


Throttle lever still has room to move before contacting engine block, so the butterfly valve tries to go past WOT in the carb.



Scenario 2, Throttle Control Rod Adjustment
[1] Advance throttle lever to stop against the engine block by hand (engine in forward gear)
[2] Manually open carb throttle valve to wide-open position (blade perfectly horizontal)
[2] Set throttle adjust collar screw against the nylon pivot block at this position

Then the cam follower comes down way too soon as I let off of the throttle. In other words as the cam follower comes down while the carb closes, it contacts the spark advance cam way to the left of the two marks where it is supposed to contact between as it comes down.

With carb butterfly valve held open, throttle lever is advanced by hand until it contacts the engine block. At this point the collar screw on the throttle control rod is set against the nylon pivot block. This results in carb opening to exactly WOT as tiller throttle handle is turned to WOT, pressing throttle lever against stop on engine.


When throttle is released, cam follower drops down and contacts cam well before the two marks


Not sure how I can have both of these conditions met at the same time. The engine will run when I set it to satisfy scenario #1, but I am afraid I am not advancing timing enough at WOT.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

All in all, the main questions I have are:
[1] When I turn the tiller throttle control to WOT, should the throttle lever stop against the engine block?
[2] Does the throttle lever need to be stopped against the engine block to fully advance the timing?
[3] **Is the cam follower supposed to leave/contact the cam between the two marks as the carb begins to open/close AND the throttle control rod be set such that the butterfly valve is at WOT with the throttle lever against the engine block? I do not see how this is physically possible on my engine.**

Tried to include all possible information.. I am continuing to research this and figure it out, as well as searching through this forum and others for any relevant information.

Thanks in advance for any info on this!!

 

[airshot]

Forget the Sealoc manual, they are only good for when you run out of toilet paper. Follow the OMC book right to the letter...I have sometimes had to read them a couple times to fully understand

 

[racerone]

They first used that throttle set-up about 60 years ago.----It was confusing even back then.---Not hard for a shop to set up.------Hint.----There is usually a space of about 3/16" between the stop and that arm at idle.---Picture #2 above.

 

[xBoomhauer]

Thank you for the responses. I started out with the OMC manual. On the surface it makes sense, not very complicated, I just feel like I'm missing something. I definitely read through the instructions many many times trying to make sense of how it all works together.

I got the Seloc PDF online, glad I didn't pay the full $60 for paper back at local marine store. It did not have any extra information on this, actually less than the OMC.

I just wish it would show where everything is supposed to sit at WOT, as well as at idle, as a reference. Really just need to know about where the throttle lever should be sitting relative to the stop on the engine block at WOT, because there's no way it is against the engine stop if you set up the cam follower movement properly (comes off cam between the 2 marks). At least from what I'm seeing. But that's how the instructions say to set the throttle control rod relative to the carb at WOT.

Just trying to get everything adjusted properly before I go out and try to verify the timing. Only reason I'm worried about the timing is the spark advance stop is mounted to the electric start mount. Which I think was all installed by the previous owner, and based on a few other things I've found and fixed since I've had it, I have my doubts on in being set properly.

I will post the instructions on these adjustments from the OMC manual, as well as a link to the one YouTube video I found of someone making this adjustment on an engine with the same carb/timing setup.

Thanks again!

 

[racerone]

If there is something wrong with your motor then all the adjusting / fiddling will not help.----What trouble shooting have you done if any.----Start with posting the compression numbers on this 40 year old motor.

 

[xBoomhauer]

If there is something wrong with your motor then all the adjusting / fiddling will not help.----What trouble shooting have you done if any.----Start with posting the compression numbers on this 40 year old motor.

I don't have any reason to believe there is anything wrong, yet. It was running when I got it. Seemed to run alright at WOT, but it wouldn't idle without giving it some throttle input, so I started down the route of setting low speed needle. When I went to do that, the retaining ring disintegrated, likely getting some into the carb. Figured while I was replacing that I would get a carb kit and clean everything up. Now that I've put it back together I wanted to verify all these adjustments are where they were supposed to be. The adjustments were not quite properly set to begin with, I should have taken note of exactly where everything was when I started. I know the cam follower was not leaving the cam right between the marks where it was supposed to.

I'm mechanically inclined, but new to outboards. I love to tinker and of course I started touching things before I knew exactly what I was doing, so now here I am just starting from scratch trying to get everything synced up properly according to factory specs. Hard to accurately troubleshoot if I don't have things adjusted properly.

I do have a compression test kit coming in today, so will have those numbers soon.

OMC instructions:




Youtube example:

 

[racerone]

On more than one occasion have I had people say.---" You were right , there was something wrong all these years.-----That is the way I bought it and it ran.----I did not know how one in good condition runs " ----Sorry to be blunt here.

 

[xBoomhauer]

And I am totally open to that, I have very little experience with outboards. It "felt" like it ran well, but I have no experience or reference to go off of. The poor idle led me to check the low speed needle setting. Factory setting is 1.5 turns out and adjust from there. It was sitting at almost 9 turns out with little to no retaining ring to hold it in place. Vibrating all over the place, luckily it still looks to be in good condition. After seeing the condition of that retaining ring I wanted to clean the carb and start fresh.

I don't necessarily have a problem I am trying to fix (that I know of). I just cleaned the carb (replaced components with a carb kit from OMC), cleaned the engine, and wanted to start over with proper factory settings.

Like I said, I made the mistake of fiddling with it before I knew exactly how everything worked, along with not taking good notes of where everything was before I started. So it seems to me the best place to start would be to get everything adjusted to factory settings and see how it runs and go from there.

 

[xBoomhauer]

After more research I am comfortable saying the most important of the carb/timing sync is having the cam follower leave/contact the cam right between the marks on the cam. This should keep spark advance synced with throttle position/engine speed. I have seen and read that you may need to adjust this slightly in some cases depending on the engine. Mine seems to work when set right between the marks.

Regarding the procedure for Throttle Control Rod Adjustment, still not sure how you can have the above set properly, and be able to rotate the throttle lever to the stop on the engine block without binding the throttle shaft. That's where I'm left confused and feel like I'm missing something. Or there is something mechanically wrong with my system.

Took it out yesterday to try to get the carb adjusted. There is a lot of play in the throttle control which is making it hard to get the idle fine-tuned. I also need to replace the bent idle stop screw. (acts more like a cam rather than a linear adjustment due to the wobble as it rotates, for example 1/4 turn doesn't always yield same amount of adjustment)

I hooked up a tachometer to try and monitor RPMs. According to that, I was able to idle around 700-800 rpm in neutral, probably lower if I spent more time on it. At WOT it was topping out at roughly 4900 rpm, manual says it should be at least 5200 (up to 5800 I believe). Then again I have not verified my tachometer. It is the type where you wrap a signal wire around the spark plug wire. I am going to get a photo eye tachometer that looks at a marker on the flywheel for a comparison measurement. Previous owner had put a new prop on it, I believe it matches factory prop specs but I have not verified that.

At the end of the day I think I was over-thinking it, though I wanted to be as thorough as I could when setting these adjustments. The only thing left is to verify the timing/spark advance at WOT and get that adjusted to the factory spec of 30 degrees advanced.

 

[Crosbyman]

it runs well if you can return to the dock -)

 

[xBoomhauer]

Pretty sure I have my issue figured out.

Looks like the spark advance stop bolt also serves as the high speed throttle stop. (feel free to correct me if I am wrong on that) Duh. Looking back, it should've been obvious, but with my inexperience it didn't click right away.

(I was confusing the throttle lever itself contacting the engine block with the throttle/timing cam contacting the spark advance stop bolt as the high speed throttle stop)