1984 115 Johnson starting issue

[tomynoks]

Motor was rebuilt 2 years ago and ran great! It has sat since and now it turns over very slow. I have tried 3 different charged batteries... (maybe all 3 are bad? I'm hoping that's the case!!) I pulled the plugs and w/o compression, it turned over faster. What should be done after it sitting for 2 years?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Sounds like a classic case of dirty corroded connections or faulty wiring.

But start by ensuring that your battery is fully charged and load tested.

Once the battery is good, measure the voltage at the starter while cranking. Is it 12.65 volts? If not, there is a fault from the battery to the starter. If you are getting your 12.65 volts, the starter is faulty, and will need to be replaced or rebuilt.

If you find that there is a fault between the battery and starter, take off ever connection at the starter, solenoid, battery and engine ground, and polish it to a shine with a file, then re tighten. Inspect all wiring for nicks, cuts, abrasions, or "crunching" when you flex it, and replace as needed.

Of course, a voltage drop test is superior to trouble shoot this if you have a volt meter. let us know if you need help with this.

Let us know how you do.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

If cleaning the terminals does not work, try jumping the starter direct from a good battery. If the starter rotates fast (normally) you might check the starter solenoid. Those contacts can get burned over the years and not transfer current well when the key switch is turned to start.

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Thanks for the quick responses guys!! I haven't had time to re-check my old batteries... but I sure hope it's either the battery or a bad connection, that would be sweet!! I will keep you posted for sure!! I should add... I just finished rebuilding this boat, a 1973 Starcraft Chieftain. Well, not quite finished, but ready to hit the water.. I'm pretty ecstatic that when I turn the key, the motor still turns over! I raised the deck almost 2" to install a below-deck 25G fuel tank and have stowage for batteries. I re-wired the entire boat, added a battery switch, negative buss, fuse block and 6 switch panel. I'm keepin' my fingers crossed on the motor!

Thanks again!

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Ok... being newly married w/ a 7 yo step- daughter...not much time for working on boat!!! I have a new, fully charged, load-tested battery... direct to starter or through solenoid...it turns over faster, but not fast enough to start it. I;m pretty sure the starter was new 2 yrs ago when I bought the motor.. is there anything I could do as far as lube that might be the issue, or do you guys think it's the starter?? It turns and thrusts out, but either the fly-wheel is bound up somehow..or the starter doesn't have enough power to turn it enough... ??

Thanks again!!

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

After your test, I'd be inclined to pull the starter apart. The brushes could be bad. Bombardier sells replacement brush sets. Cheaper than a new starter. Also, when you have it apart, clean all the carbon out and relube the bushings with some white lithium grease.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

What is the voltage at the starter while cranking? Should be the 12.65 Volts as at the battery. When jumping the starter, ensure that the cables that you are using are not corroded, nicked or cut, and are of proper gauge. Jumper cables can sometimes restrict voltage flow, due to poor contact of the surface area of the teeth, proper connectors work best. If you are getting the 12.65 volts at the starter while cranking, time to follow the advice above. If pulling apart a starter is worrisome to you, starter/alternator repair shops will rebuild them for a fair price. Ask you local marina/dealer to reccomed a good shop to you.

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Ok... I'll check the voltage at the starter... is there anything else it could be??...

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

I don't have a digital tester, but the voltage at the starter jumps from 8-10 when cranking... that's with the battery hooked directly to engine ground and the solenoid or starter. I got the same result with the battery wired into the harness where it belongs... The battery tests at about 14.6. It doesn;t seem possible to get the 8-10 reading when wired directly to the starter. Hmmm...????

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Brushes look new..... Commutator was glazed.. shined it up like new.. Checked negative griund again and made sure there is good contact. Same issue. I think I'll take the starter all apart and look for corrosion there... I have tried connecting a good-fully charged, load-tested battery directly to the starter and it still turns slow, barely enough torque to turn the motor over... so I'm pretty sure I have isolated the problem.

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Took starter apart.. removed and cleaned brush contacts.. brushes and commutator... same result... getting closer to buying a new starter!!!

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

The brushes look fine. The commutator looks pretty smooth-no grooves.

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Yeah.....and still barely turns the motor over... I can see nothing WRONG with this starter... But I just ordered a new one on eBay for $68... My fear is that I'll hook up the new one and get the same result.. lol... I cannot see how it can be anything else though at this point....

ANy thoughts.....anyone???

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

When you jump the starterdirectly from the battery, how are you doing it exactly, and what are you using? Jumper cables?

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Yes, jumper cables... with the same exact result as when the battery is connected normally... ground to ground stud on engine and positive directly to starter stud..

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Ok.. brand new starter.. same issue.. I hooked battery (freshly charged, load-tested) directly to starter, even disconnected the cable from the solenoid to be sure all power is going to the starter.. same result, barely turns over. I have lubricated the cylinders/pistons with gas and 2-cycle oil mixture. I can turn the flywheel by hand, so I don't think it's a mechanical issue, but I am at a loss as to what the problem might be...

Where are the gurus?? lol Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

One other small thing to check. Any chance that the spark advance rod (link arm) has become detached between the spark advance lever and the timer base? If the timer base ever becomes detached and moves to an advanced timing postion, that can make an engine hard/slow to crank.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Tom..... You say "Brand New Starter". Is this absolutely a brand new starter or a third party rebuild starter? I have encountered in the past "rebuilt" starters that left a great deal to be desired which simply would not crank the engine. Even factory new starters can have a brush hung up from sitting (it happens).

Also, the battery. You mention that it was load tested. If that load test was made at Pep Boys, Advance Auto, Wal*Mart, wherever via a "state of the art" (as they call it) charger/load test unit, the battery could still have a bad cell that will only show up via a hydrometer. I've taken faulty batteries in for replacement to those places only to have them tell me the battery is fine and that the problem lies elsewhere..... then I pull out my trusty hydrometer and prove that the battery has a bad cell and that their test equipment leaves a lot to be desired.

A V4 OMC outboard (spark plugs removed) that can be turned over easily by hand as you state should whirl over very fast with a new starter, good battery, and good jumper cables. With the bendix engaged in the flywheel, that gear engagement should be a fairly close fit BUT with a slight bit of play.

If you're sure that you have a perfect battery, fully charged, and known good jumper cables, have a volt meter connected connected across the battery terminals and observe the reading.... continue observing while you connect the jumper cables to the starter. If you see a drastic voltage drop, suspect a battery cell problem, flawed cables, something of that nature. Also try with the meter connected across the jumper cable ends that will be attached to the starter.

Let us know what you find.

 

[tomynoks]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Joe,

I appreciate your thoroughness and skepticism about having quality testing equipment and the like. I don't have professional equipment, or great electrical knowledge. Here's everything I have done:

Battery:
Had 3 batteries that hadn't been used in 2 years. Charged with my Dual Pro Professional on board 3 stage charger. They wouldn't hold a load according to my Harbor Freight $10 load tester.. I bought a new battery at West Marine, charged it with the dual pro and it passed the load test. I get the same result whether the battery is connected to the wiring harness normally or jumped directly to the negative ground on engine and the post on starter. I even disconnected the cable from the solenoid to be sure all power is going to starter. Battery tests at almost 13v when fully charged.

Starter:
The motor was rebuilt 2 years ago (not by me) and the starter was replaced then. I took it apart and cleaned the brushes, commutator and everything else inside. Got the same result. Bought NEW starter.. brand new, imported. Same result.

Cylinders:
Sprayed first with seafoam, fuel, 2 cycle oil mix. Turned the motor over by hand (plugs out) while spraying. That was 2 weeks ago and I repeated lubrication a few times since and the motor turns over pretty easy with plugs out, hard with plugs in, but can be turned.

With plugs out, the new battery and new starter spin the flywheel pretty fast, So I was dumbfounded when it would barely crank at all with plugs in.

I rebuilt a 1969 Johnson 115 a few years ago and thought I was getting pretty good with trouble-shooting, but I am definitely missing something here. That's what I can remember right now... I hope that shines some light for you.

Thanks so much for your input.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1984 115 Johnson starting issue

Tom.... With the spark plugs removed, in neutral, if with a socket on the flywheel nut coupled with a normal size ratchet, you can easily turn the engine over a few revolutions, the problem is not the engine.

That would lead me back into the battery, jumper cable, starter area unfortunately. One of the three (at least) must be faulty. Without being there, I can't think of anything else than whatever I've alaready said to tell you at the present time.