1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

yello_zebra

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So I've been trying to diagnose what appears to be the classic "clutch dog forward gear" problem whereby the engine shakes violently about every 5 or 6 seconds at high speed under load. It does feel like I'm hitting a log so the descriptions I've read about clutch problems seem to match.

I've pulled the lower end from the motor and am in the process of disassembling it.

I did notice that when I pulled the plug (screw) on the lower end and expected the grease or gear oil to drain out, all I got was about 1/3 cup of brownish sea water. Not good... I'm assuming that my seals are probably in need of replacing on the lower end.

My questions:

Is there a 3 ear clutch replacement and gear kit made for this engine? If so is it still available somewhere?

(No, not that I can find.)

Are the FWD and REV gears identical? Can they be swapped for a temporary fix? Same question on the clutch, can it be turned around?

(No, the rear gear has a bigger shaft diameter)
(No, the clutch dog has a thin groove that has to face forward)

Assuming I can get some long Harbor Freight snap ring pliers to remove the large snapring, I'll post pictures of my clutch dog and fwd gear soon...

Any advice on sourcing parts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

YZ
 
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jasper60103

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Looks like the 2 lug dog is supplied with this motor. The gearcase parts are still available, but very expensive. New parts that is. You may want to find a used lower unit, or parts from one of the marine salvage yards in the link below. Also, if you get lucky you may come across a blown motor on C/L. Good luck.

1983 Evinrude E35ELCTS 35 hp Outboard Motor Parts

http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/salvage-yards-wilde1-438822.html
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

So I was able to get the lower end partially disassembled. I successfully used a gear puller to pull the bearing housing out. The threaded holes on my bearing housing were 1/4" 20 threads per inch. Used a Harbor Freight 10" pair of snap ring pliers ($9) to remove the large internal snap ring. (I used a file to make the nibs on the pliers just a bit smaller as they would not quite fit into the snap ring holes. Also had to bend the ratchet tab a bit to allow it to fit into the housing.) Also, there are 2 5/16 or 7/16 bolts recessed in the bearing housing that have to be removed using a nut driver before pulling the housing out. My socket and extension would not fit into the housing for access to the bolts...

I was able to unscrew the shift linkage rod and removed it out the top. I removed the side screw / pin that I believe acts as a pivot point for the shift linkage (phillips head next to grease drain plug). The reverse gear came out easily. I can see the clutch dog and arm that moves it but can't quite figure out the trick to remove it. Do I spread the 2 sides of the arm to get them past the clutch dog? Should the center horizontal drive shaft come out at this point?

(EDIT: Once the reverse gear is out, the clutch dog can be pushed forward (with a bit of force) and the detent balls will usually fall out at this point, then the shift lever can be lifted from the rear with a skinny screwdriver and maneuvered out. Or as the response below say, the propshaft can be pulled out at this time.)

I don't have the service manual (obviously), perhaps I'll find it online here...

Any tips or advice always appreciated!

I'm attaching various photos of my stage of disassembly, and what I used to remove the parts that may help someone in the future...

Thanks,

YZ

photo.jpgphoto(1).JPGphoto(2).JPGphoto(3).JPGphoto(4).jpg
 
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AlTn

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

try marineengine.com for a diagram of the gearcase...google leeroysramblings.com..9.9/15 hp maintenance and repair and go to his gearcase section as yours will be very similar, if not the same, as far as components and disassembly
 

Chinewalker

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Pull the propshaft out - keeping track of the spring and two detent balls in the propshaft. That will leave the shift clutch ready to rotate on its pivot and come out (with the cradle). If memory serves, the forward gear then pivots down and away from the pinion, allowing it to come out with the shift fork. Then the pinion comes out.
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

"...pull the propshaft out..."

I'm assuming it should come out by hand? Or is there a bearing on the front end that requires the use of a puller on the shaft?

I suspect that mine is just dirty / rusty and is not sliding out as it should. I'll give it a harder pull and see if I can get it to budge.

I am keeping track of any and all parts, their orientation and what order they come out...

Is a special tool required for re-assembling the clutch and shift mechanism?

(EDIT: Yes! The tool is called PATIENCE! I had to reassemble the clutch shift lever about 8 or 9 times before finding a method that worked for me. See comments below about using a piece of string and leaving the clutch in the neutral position instead of fwd.)

Thanks for all the replies!

YZ

PS., can't believe there's not a YouTube video of this process... Guess I'll have to make one once I figure it out...
 
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Chinewalker

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

The detent balls will grip the clutch dog fairly strongly so you'll need to put a little oomph into pulling the shaft out. It'll come, though.

I almost want to say I had to feed a piece of nylon rope (like used in the recoil) into the housing via the shift rod hole, then threaded into the top of the yoke to be able to pull it into place. I melted the end of the rope with a lighter to harden it so it could be threaded into the yoke. That gave it enough grip to pull it into place, but was also able to be yanked out of the threads when done so I could thread the shaft into the yoke.
 

WillB621

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Glad to see there's another motor out there that has the same problem I do. I just posted almost an identical issue. I have the "jerking" only in forward gear under a load. It doesn't do it in reverse or in the barrel. I just rebuilt my lower unit, replaced the clutch dog, drive shaft and the water pump since I had it apart. Of course, that didn't fix it. Since then, I replaced the power pack and both coils becouse I thought it may be electrical.......still does it. I'm hoping I will get some answers on here. The only thing I would think it could be is the forward gear but all of my gears looked good when I had the lower unit apart. I'll be sure and keep my eye on your post and if I hear anything I will sure let you know.

As far as disassembly and re-assembly, I wish I could help out. I had a heck of a time but got it all back together and have been out on the water a few times but I have to get this figured out and fixed. Good luck!
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

I finally got the lower end fully disassembled. A bit rusty, there was no grease to speak of anywhere. The shaft came out, found the spring, the detent balls are nowhere to be found! Perhaps they fell out but I've looked everywhere and don't see them. Even used a magnet to sweep inside the lower end and on my shop floor, nothing.

Would it even have shifted without the balls???

The bearings are all rusted and need replacing. I'll post pics of the gears and clutch tomorrow.

Can't believe this worked at all, let alone at 30mph!

Hopefully a new clutch dog, forward gear and bearings will fix this.

My last test run at slow speed, I disconnected the remote shift and held the lever forward manually. It would push the lever back, pop out and then quickly back in gear as if it had skipped a tooth or something. Now that I see the clutch dog ear mechanism I can better understand the action.

I'd just buy another used motor, but who's to say it won't have the same issue! Ah, the joys of budget boating... ;)
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Here are some pics of my salty gearbox...photo(18).JPGphoto(19).JPGphoto(20).JPGphoto(21).JPGphoto(22).JPG
 

Chinewalker

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Hate to say it, but I think your gears are toast. The roller marks on the pinion's bearing surfaces may be the show stopper.
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Those aren't marks on the pinion, that's the roller bearing...
 

Chinewalker

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

The marks are on the shank of the gear where it rides in a needle bearing. That is pitting that will cause a new bearing to chatter in short order. Under that circular roller bearing it's likely pitted, too.
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Ah! Thanks for the clarification... I'm going to clean up the parts as best as possible and see how they look after that. I hate to spend $$$ on gears for a boat and motor that I only paid $1500 for (13' Whaler). Maybe I roll the dice on a different used motor or lower end...

Since it's not that big of a job, perhaps I reassemble what I have (and include the 2 balls that seem to have been missing), fill it full of lube and see how it operates. Can't be any worse that what is was... ;)
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

If the spirit of "doing the job right the first time" I've just ordered $125 worth of bearings and gaskets / seal kits and $250 worth of gears to hopefully fix the problem. Even though I don't think my clutch and forward gear look *that* bad where they mate, I'm only wanting to do this job once and the engine is 30 years old. Should it not fix the problem, the whole mess will get parted out on Ebay to find new life for someone else. ;)

Any recommendations for how to clean up rusty parts? WD40? Emery cloth?

Cheers!

YZ
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Anyone know of any write-ups on assembly instructions for a 1983 Evinrude 35 lower unit? I've received all my new bearings and gears and am now looking for instructions / tips / guides that relate to re-assembling the unit. Adjusting the shift rod???

Any help is greatly appreciated!

YZ
 

classiccat

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Anyone know of any write-ups on assembly instructions for a 1983 Evinrude 35 lower unit? I've received all my new bearings and gears and am now looking for instructions / tips / guides that relate to re-assembling the unit. Adjusting the shift rod???

Any help is greatly appreciated!

YZ

I have this exact engine...rebuilt the LU this past winter.

you should try and get yourself a factory service manual. The 1983 is all inclusive...2Hp up through V6...but still an excellent guide (along with the Pros here on iboats :cool: )
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

Thanks for the link and your write-up! Very valuable information and pics... My gears actually didn't look too bad except for some surface rust. My bearings on the other hand... I'm still trying to imagine how the LU was still functioning with completely seized rusted roller bearings. The pinion bearing and the degree of difficulty and tools needed to replace it are rather daunting. I think I'm putting back together everything I have and see if my "jerking" clutch dog problem is resolved. Then later this fall/winter I'll tear it down again and replace the pinion bearing. After buying a new fwd gear, clutch dog, thrust bearing and several other bearings, I'm done spending money on this LU. I can buy entire 35hp engines of the same vintage for what I've already spent. The problem with living next to salt water is that a lot of the ones for sale, have the same issues... I'll post a followup after my sea trial next weekend...
 

classiccat

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

No problem! Hopefully it can be of use to you!

What part of the teardown/reassembly do you plan on postponing?

I didn't use any special tools for removing the pinion bearing. You punch that bearing out (using a socket)...it falls into the gear cavity. Before doing so, I recall building a jig out of all-thread, nuts/washers to record/measure the bearing's depth/displacement from the top of the gearcase.
 

yello_zebra

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 35 ELCTS clutch dog dance... (quick fixes? parts sourcing?)

SUCCESS!!! After several attempts I have finally cured my "jerking" motor problem. My clutch dog and forward gear, while rusty with surface rust; didn't look bad enough to be causing the problem, but replacing both of them and all the bearings in my lower end seems to have fixed the problem. I'll post what I learned and some pictures in the hopes of helping someone with this problem in the future.

You CAN actually rebuild the lower unit without the official Evinrude tools described in the manual. You have to get creative and be patient and read and re-read the service manual many times. Special attention has to be paid when separating the lower unit from the leg and when disassembling the lower unit itself. Again, read the manual... it helps and has "special words" which are sections that are very important.

As mentioned above and in other threads, you'll want to take very precise measurements or create a jig using threaded rod and washers and nuts to try and document exactly how deep to press the pinion bearing and drive shaft bearing in the lower unit housing. I used a good set of calipers and measured the existing depths and distances to within hundredths of inches. My first attempt at reassembly was not close enough and when testing the fit of the pinion gear and forward and reverse gears, it was binding so I had to drive the bearings out and reassemble again. If it doesn't spin and shift smoothly with your hand, adding the power of the engine will likely result in disaster for your gears... And yes, shifting it by hand requires a bit of force (and maybe plyers on the shift rod), but not an excessive amount.

Note: the manual says to put the clutch dog in the forward position when inserting the shaft and clutch dog. This I believe is supposed to give you more room to get the shift lever "arms" under the clutch and into the grooves more easily. My experience was that this caused the detent balls to fall out because they are right at the edge of escaping. I found that if I left the clutch in the neutral position (firmly holding the detent balls), I still had the ability to get the shift lever arms in place. Tricky, but with patience and a long skinny screwdriver, I was successful. (Oh, and a piece of string through the shift lever's pivot hole so that I could manipulate it in several directions. Remove the piece of string before putting the pivot screw in or it won't come out easily.)

Putting the large snap ring back into the correct groove was also challenging, but doable, even with my $9 snap ring plyers from Harbor Freight. If I did this for a living I'd buy an $80 pair.

The other valuable lesson I learned is that you have to pay special attention to the water tube that connects at the top of the water impeller housing and then runs up through the exhaust leg to another fitting. Mine came loose up above (unbenounced to me) and so I had no cooling water to the engine on my first test. Had to drop the lower end again and realize that the water tube had become disconnected at the top end. Using a hand mirror and flashlight I was able to get it inserted again.

When separating the 2 halves of the shift rod through the water intake window, hold the lower nut still using a 1/2" wrench while unscrewing the upper nut using another 1/2" open end wrench. The lower rod is threaded into the clutch shift lever and can be unscrewed upward later.

I could not figure out how to get the upper half of the shift rod to pull all the way clear of the metal plate on the bottom of the water impeller housing. The manual refers to a "retainer" but mine doesn't have a retainer, just a metal threaded end that will not come through that plate. As a result, I dropped the lower end by unbolting the water impeller housing and leaving it with the exhaust leg. The drive shaft also stayed with the engine / exhaust leg which I discovered should be pulled intact with the lower unit. I believe what I SHOULD have done is pulled the starter, and disconnected the shift rod up above... Live and learn, RTFM! :)

CORRECTION!!! My shift linkage rod DOES have a retainer keeping the threaded part from sliding off the end of the rod where joins the lower half of the shift rod. Slide the threaded piece up the upper half of the rod, and look for a black plastic part that has a vertical slit in it. That black plastic part will flex and come off the rod, allowing the threaded part to slide all the way off. This will allow you to drop the lower end without having to mess with the impeller pump cover... And if memory serves me correctly, the drive shaft pulls out and stays with the lower end unit!

photo(29).JPGphoto(28).JPGphoto(27).JPGphoto(26).JPGphoto(25).JPG

The pics:

Measuring the drive shaft bearing depth. Same method used to measuer the pinion bearing depth.

A pic of pressing the new bearing into the bearing retainer / holder using a vise.

Used a cherry picker engine hoist to pull the drive shaft bearing container (threaded rod and appropriate washers and nut on the backside). Pinion bearing can be driven downward and retrieved easily. New pinion bearing can be driven from the top once the drive shaft bearing and holder is out of the way.

A pic of the drive shaft bearing.

A pic of the new clutch dog next to the old one...

CONCLUSION: Even a hack like me can successfully rebuild a lower end. Took the 13'6" Whaler on a test run yesterday and did about 12 miles without a hiccup! And she's FAST! Faster than I need to go without a seatbelt... Topped out at about 36mph, cruised nicely at 25mph.
 
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