1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

[Benz Mondi]

I want to finally fix my hard starting issue. I've always had to tilt it to get her started when either cold or warm.

Among other possibilities, I suspect that my choke solenoid isn't working properly.
When I push the key down (I've taken the engine cowl off and turned the motor to one side for viewing), I can hear a click sound and can see a very small movement (more like a shake) coming from the choke. After pushing the key down a couple of times in a row, the clicking sound stops and so does the shake-movement.

Is this what I'm supposed to see from a properly functioning choke?
I saw a post that these can't be rebuilt. Is it worth it to buy a used one?

Thanks,

 

[DAN M VAGOS]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

I have a 89 fosrc too and my choke solenoid died on me the same way. All it dose is when powe is added it makes a magnetic feald and pulls the plunger down but from the constant movement the plunger gets loss and it can't make a strong magnet. So you will need a new one because it should be pulling hard and fast and all the way.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Before you change anything???
Try a carb cleaner in the slide tube?
Spray and have someone hit the key.
Then spray some more.
They get gummed up and need to be cleaned out.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Do Jerry's lead and then if things don't work still try the following.
Using a small jumper wire connect it to the green wire terminal off the solenoid and then touch the other end to the positive battery cable. The solenoid should pull strongly on the choke valves (assuming you have a good charged battery) If it does, your most likely problem is a worn out or dirty contacts on your ignition switch or a low charge battery. With a low charge battery the choke will pull up when the switch is push down but will drop when the switch is turned to activate the starter (because the starter has lower resistance hence most current will drain to the starter ckt).

However, if after jumpering the solenoid to the battery and it is still not pulling all the way, check for binding or it could be the solenoid coil is already shorted or grounded and needs replacement.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

OK. Sprayed Carb cleaner down the slide tube.
Pushed down on the plunger to make sure it wasn't binding in any way.
My voltmeter said that my battery was at 12.47 volts.
Applied 12v to the terminal and the solenoid snapped into action quite strongly.
Repeated touching the terminal and the solenoid worked as I was expecting it to.

I then connected the regular boat leads, turned the key to on and pushed down on the key to activate the choke.
I heard one faint tap sound... and nothing else, even with repeated pushing down on the key.

I then disconnected the green wire from the solenoid and hooked the wire up to my voltmeter. Without pushing on the key but the key in the "on" position it read 0.054 VDC. With the key pushed down, it read 0.107 volts.

What should I do next to figure out why the solenoid won't activate?

Thanks,

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Key switch? Somewhere is a bad connection.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Only one more testing to do before replacing the likely cause of problem which is the ignition switch. Dismount the ignition switch and get a 14~12 gauge wire and connect one end to the red wire ("B" terminal) and the other end touch the green wire ("C" terminal). If the choke activates, replace the ignition switch. If it didn't activate, check for the continuity of the green wire make sure it is still intact and connected. You can either use a wire extension connected to the green wire in the ignition sw or to the disconnected green wire from the choke solenoid terminal (make sure one end is disconnected either from the switch or the choke terminal) to read continuity or resistance. There should be zero to very low resistance if connection or the wire is intact. Remember this testing is with the assumption you have verified 12V on the battery wire which is the red wire in the ignition switch which will only be "hot" if the control lever is in neutral.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Alright, tested the green 12v power wire from the key switch to the solenoid by disconnecting the wire at the key switch and touching it with a test wire directly connected to the battery. Initially it sparked and nothing happened. I let the wires touch a little longer and the solenoid activated. I was able to repeat activating the solenoid in this way several times thought not every time I made the connection.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that with a more solid connection, the solenoid would activate each time?

Knowing the green wire was good, I then reconnected the green wire to the key switch, connected both boat leads to the battery, turned the key to on and depressed the key to power the choke... nothing. I jiggle the key, still nothing. So it seems the problem is with the key switch.

Now here's a decision to be made. I already have a spare key switch with the correct contacts and is a push-down choke that I can replace the faulty one with. Switching will even allow me to use a more common key size. The difference is (see picture) the contacts are a different style and the length of the switch body itself. I've already test fit the replacement one and the fitment is correct. The OEM switch has a longer body and screw-in connectors (the switch on the left). The more modern key switch has a shorter body and push-in contacts.

Should I try to find the same OEM key switch or cut the old connectors, crimp on the necessary push-on connectors and use the more modern version on the right?

What say all of you?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Try to find original if possible??
BUT!!! If the other works go for it.
Why spend $$$

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

You can find a generic type switch of the same configuration right here at iBoats for less than $20 (well last time I bought one anyways). I say get it and don't have to mess with the terminal connectors. However, I do have doubts with the testing you conducted. As you mentioned, you connected the switch terminal end of the green wire with a test wire directly connected to the battery and it intermittently activated the solenoid. That is not a good sign which will mean the green wire has a loose connection somewhere (if you can validate the battery test wire is also properly connected). I recommend double checking the green wire by doing a hand over hand tracing from the solenoid to the terminal boards. For each terminal board connection, disconnect and do a continuity test and if good, re-install and tightened. Check and double check where the wire is crimped to the terminal usually this is the weak spot where the wire will start to break due to corrosion and vibration.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Hmmm, doing a hand over hand check would require that I split the casing along the entire length of the OEM harness. Perhaps I would opt for just running a whole new green wire of the same gauge as the OEM instead? If the new switch I decide on doesn't work also then I'll add the new wire.

I can only find the short neck versions of the six terminal ignition switch with the push-down choke, like the replacement I already have. This would mean that I'll have to increase the opening in my dash deck to accommodate the switch body being mounted so much closer to the dash panel itself... Oh well I have the whole dash apart any way.

This leads me to the wiring project that I always wanted to do... new thread for that one.

Thanks,

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

Well if you have a wire long enough you can use that for continuity test without having to do hand over hand tracing. According to the wiring diagram there are only two terminal boards the green wire connects to. One inside the cowling and one under the dash. You can start with the terminal connection inside the cowling. Disconnect one wire and then measure resistance (continuity test) from the terminal connection (with the wire leading to the solenoid) to the solenoid terminal connection and the reading should be less than 1 ohm for a very good connection. Anything higher suggests a poor or dirty connection. Next do a continuity test for the wire that connects to the switch. With terminal board connections still disconnected, connect the test wire (long enough to reach the ig-sw terminal connection) by twisting bared copper end and then reading resistance between the other end of the test wire and the green wire ig-sw end. Again the resistance should be less than 1 ohm.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

OK ran a continuity test for both green (choke) power lines. Both the long line from the ignition switch and the short line from the junction strip at the motor to the solenoid itself. Both sounded my continuity beep from my voltage meter and had a value of 0.1 to 0.0.

So I figured I'd test the ignition switch one more time. This time I would hook up a test light to the terminal on the ignition switch that the choke wire was supposed to be on and a ground. My thinking is that once I turned the key to the "on" position and then pushed down to activate the choke, positive power would turn the test light on. Only problem is that it did not. So to make sure that my light was working properly, I took the positive wire from the test light and touched the terminal on the ignition switch for the positive battery while the red wire from the harness was still connected to the terminal... still no light. So I decided to do a continuity test on the red line as well. The long red line was fine. The short red line from the junction panel actually became a red wire with a white stripe on the other side of a circuit-breaker. It was then I noticed that there was voltage only to one side of the breaker. Not knowing much about the breaker, I began to unscrew it so that I could switch it out with a spare when I noticed the word "reset" on the label and that the little tab was sticking out on one end!

The circuit breaker had actually tripped cutting the power to the red power line to the ignition switch. This meant that when I pushed down to activate the choke circuit, it had no source of power. I pushed the tab inward and heard a click.

I then connected the main boat leads to the battery, made sure all the wires to the ignition switch were connected, inserted the key, turned it to the "on" position and pushed down to trigger the choke... it snapped down as designed! I repeated it several times and each time the choke solenoid snapped down with a loud click. No need to change the ignition switch or choke solenoid... money saved!

All that's left now is to finish installing the rest of my dash panel upgrades, put the water ear muffs on her and see if she'll start as easy as she should.

I'll post an update afterward.

Thanks for the help, folks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

F5H078 boats . net says they have the original switch.$45
Some Force/Chryslers. In the wiring harness is a "brown"(I think) lead that was taped back.
It was for a trim sender or some other accessory.
Look for it and see if yours has one??
If it does? Use it in place of the green lead.
Or just run a wire from the front.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

OK ran a continuity test for both green (choke) power lines. Both the long line from the ignition switch and the short line from the junction strip at the motor to the solenoid itself. Both sounded my continuity beep from my voltage meter and had a value of 0.1 to 0.0.

So I figured I'd test the ignition switch one more time. This time I would hook up a test light to the terminal on the ignition switch that the choke wire was supposed to be on and a ground. My thinking is that once I turned the key to the "on" position and then pushed down to activate the choke, positive power would turn the test light on. Only problem is that it did not. So to make sure that my light was working properly, I took the positive wire from the test light and touched the terminal on the ignition switch for the positive battery while the red wire from the harness was still connected to the terminal... still no light. So I decided to do a continuity test on the red line as well. The long red line was fine. The short red line from the junction panel actually became a red wire with a white stripe on the other side of a circuit-breaker. It was then I noticed that there was voltage only to one side of the breaker. Not knowing much about the breaker, I began to unscrew it so that I could switch it out with a spare when I noticed the word "reset" on the label and that the little tab was sticking out on one end!

The circuit breaker had actually tripped cutting the power to the red power line to the ignition switch. This meant that when I pushed down to activate the choke circuit, it had no source of power. I pushed the tab inward and heard a click.

I then connected the main boat leads to the battery, made sure all the wires to the ignition switch were connected, inserted the key, turned it to the "on" position and pushed down to trigger the choke... it snapped down as designed! I repeated it several times and each time the choke solenoid snapped down with a loud click. No need to change the ignition switch or choke solenoid... money saved!

All that's left now is to finish installing the rest of my dash panel upgrades, put the water ear muffs on her and see if she'll start as easy as she should.

I'll post an update afterward.

Thanks for the help, folks.

Great! Testing does take some time and experience but pays dividends big time not to mention the acquired knowledge in the process. Not only did you learn continuity testing but you also learned about the ckt bkr and saved money on the ig sw and also on rewiring. Congrats big guy! Make sure you keep us posted with your success.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

F5H078 boats . net says they have the original switch.$45
Some Force/Chryslers. In the wiring harness is a "brown"(I think) lead that was taped back.
It was for a trim sender or some other accessory.
Look for it and see if yours has one??
If it does? Use it in place of the green lead.
Or just run a wire from the front.

My year boat didn't come with a TNT option so no there isn't a lead for a TNT. I'm still trying to source a sending unit that will work.

Thanks,

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

The 83 depending on the model/serial# should have the leads for a T/T in it?
Look for a blue and dark green wire tied back.
You have the old style pack or the newer?

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: 1983 85hp Force choke solenoid not working properly?

The 83 depending on the model/serial# should have the leads for a T/T in it?
Look for a blue and dark green wire tied back.
You have the old style pack or the newer?

Apologies to all. I mis-typed.
I installed a TNT on my boat two years ago so I have the wiring (don't know what I was thinking when I commented otherwise).
I also re-read my old posts about the trim gauge and re-convinced my self that for me the trim gauge is of limited value other than reminding me if I haven't let it come all the way down. Amazing how in two years I've forgotten so much. I'll move on to other more meaningful upgrades. Thanx.