1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not rotate

[mstone1968]

Hello Everyone,
I really need some help. This is step by step what happened.
1. Today, I was cruising down the lake and motor was running great. It kind of bogged down just a little, then reved back up to normal. When I throttled down, the motor died.
2. At this point, The starter would engage and the flywheel did spin but it acted like it was completely out of gas. I checked, I still had 1/4 tank. I tried several times and it would not start. Thought it might be flooded, so I let it set a few minutes, did not choke it and it started right back up.
3. I continued down the lake, motor running good, heard kind of a high pitch whistling sound, then it bogged way down , down to not much above idling speed. I checked the water stream and it was a good full stream of water like it always is. The motor was just running really slow.
4. I immediately put into neutral and turned motor off. When I went to start motor again, the starter just clicked once and the bendix moved up and tried to turn the flywheel, but nothing.
5. At this point I assumed the battery was dead because I had tried to start it several times before this. I then hooked up my spare- fully charged battery and it done the same thing.
6.Another boat was nice enough to tow us back to the dock. Got home checked battery voltage and it was 14.6, I also fully charged the starting battery and replaced, cleaned battery terminals to make sure there was a good connection but the same thing, starter clicks once, bendix goes up tries to turn, flywheel does not turn. (same scenario as if battery was completely dead)= but batteries are fully charged
7. I tried turning the flywheel by hand only but could not turn it by hand. I'm not sure how hard it is supposed to be to turn, but didnt want to force it.
8. In neutral the propeller spins freely, in forward or reverse, the propeller will not budge and i did not try to force it.

I've had this boat for 3 years and it has Always Started right up and ran great without any problems. Changed Lower unit oil last year before storing it for the winter. I've had it out at least 15 times this year and it has always ran great.

Could this be an electrical issue..power pack , fuse, or something like that, (lights, tilt/trim all still working good) or is the engine seized. It there was a good stream of water coming out, could it still overheat and lock up? Would anyone have any suggestions or ideas. Thank you all so much in advance.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

pull the plugs then try turning the flywheel. if it will not turn then drop the lower unit and try turning the flywheel. (i am assuming that will not turn means will not move)

 

[gr8rg8r]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Does not sound like an electrical issue, it sounds like a mechanical issue. Do what Glenn says and report back. Make sure the boat is in neutral before you drop the lower unit. If you drop the lower unit and still cannot turn the flywheel means the lower unit was not the problem and the problem is in the powerhead.

There are a lot of possibilities, with the easiest being a blown head gasket and cylinder is full of water. Anything else would probably result in the need to replace or overhaul the powerhead.

I had a similar situation happen to me. My engine seized up while running and wouldn't turn. It turned out to be the lower ball bearing. The bearing was totally obliterated and had knocked a hole in the cylinder case. I was able to weld the case, but had to overhaul the engine. Hopefully, you will get off easier than me.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Thank you both so much...Good news hopefully.
1. I removed all 4 spark plugs and the Flywheel still would not move at all.
2. I then dropped Lower unit successfully (Actually not as bad as I thought it would be. The shift rod screw was fun to get to, but other than that not too bad)
3. The Flywheel then turns very easily by hand and the piston all seem to move in and out while doing so. I turned it very slowly and only a few inches at a time but it turns very easily now.

I am hoping that it is only something in the lower unit. Do you all have any suggestions on what to do next:. While I have the lower unit off, I am going to go ahead and check the water pump/impeller assembly just to make sure there are no issues there. Not sure what to look for after that. Thank you both so much and your continued help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Daviet]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Since the propshaft turns freely, pull the upper bearing housing under the water pump and see if the drive shaft will turn. I have seen the bearing seize and lock the engine up.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Hello Daviet
1. I took the impeller housing off and the Impeller still looks in great shape.
2. I removed the thin metal plate underneath that.
3. I then removed the four bolts to the thick metal housing (assuming that is the bearing housing) but can't get it to budge. It looks like it should just lift straight up but it will only move a little to the left or right.
4.The drive shaft will not turn at all but the propshaft will turn when the shift rod is in the neutral position.

Any suggestions on how to get the bearing housing to pull up. I tried using a flat head and pry it up but didn't want to break anything. I removed the bolts to the housing surrounding the shift rod but it will not come off either. Thanks so much for your assistance

 

[Daviet]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

The bearing might be seized to the shaft. Try using a couple of large flat blade screw drivers. Put one one each side and gently pry up the bearing housing. You might have to work it up side to side a little at a time. Can you rotate the bearing housing?
Your problem sounds exactly like the one I had, a seized bearing in the bearing housing.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Thanks Daviet,
I will go try that right now. I could not get the bearing housing to rotate, when I tried turning it it also moved the drive shaft. But I can only move it to the left or right about a 1/4 inch. I will see if I can get the housing off. Since the motor was still running when it bogged down and the flywheel is moving, Do you think the power head is still ok..? Thanks so much.

 

[Daviet]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

With the lower unit off, does the power head rotate easly with the plugs out? If it does you are probably ok.
If the drive shaft rotates with the bearing housing I bet the bearing is seized to the shaft. If you can't break it loose, you are going to have to remove the bearing/housing around the propshaft, remove the reverse gear and then take the nut off of the bottom of the drive shaft and remove it as a unit. You are probably going to have to remove the drive shaft anyways as the bearing surface is probably damaged.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Daviet,
Yes, thankfully the power head / flywheel rotates easily with the plugs out and the lower unit off. (so hopefully that is good news)
I finally got the drive shaft to rotate and it does rotate the propshaft when the shift rod is in gear now, however the bearing housing rotates as the drive shaft rotates. (Therefore when the bolts are in the bearing housing the drive shaft will not turn)
I think you are right it definitely sounds like the bearing is seized to the drive shaft. Ive tried everything to get the bearing housing to come up off the drive shaft and it will not budge. I will see what I can do to remove the housing from the propshaft. Hopefully I can get that to work. Man, thank you so much for your help. I will post the out come.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

You were exactly correct Daviet,
After 4 hours I finally got the top of the bearing house off of the drive shaft, I'm not sure if it is all supposed to be one assembly but half the bearings were literally shredded and almost flat in some areas. There was another metal plate right under the bearings that had part of the bearing case welded to it. I am going to try to find a parts list and see what all I need to order. It appeared that there may have been some water in the lower unit also because the oil was a little milky. I'm going to go ahead and replace the lower unit seals, visible O rings, put another impeller, on while I have it apart. Hopefully after doing some lower unit repairs it will be up and running again. I couldn't get the reverse gear off. I removed the 4 bolts holding the prop shaft casing and removed the casing. However there is a clip spring at the bottom of where the prop shaft is and couldn't get it out. I'm going to take it some were to try to get that clip spring out. After removing the bearing house, the drive shaft would spin and while doing so would spin the prop shaft, so I'm hoping all of that is still ok too. Man it has been a rough last two days. Thanks everyone fore their input. If anyone has any further suggestions on what to do while I'm at this point, I welcome all comments and suggestions. Thanks so much. I will post an update this week.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Glad you figured it out, now you know what that high pitched noise was.

Here is your parts manual, I dont know the model number but you can take it from there

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1979&hp=85

Hopefully the drive shaft will be reusable. Inspect all the splines before reinstalling, along with the gears and dog.

 

[Daviet]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Was your gearcase low on oil?
When you get the drive shaft out, you will see that it has grooves in it, when the engine is running the grooves supply oil to the upper bearing, if you are running with a low oil level, it can't supply oil to the upper bearing causing your problem.
Just something to think about.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Hello High Trim, Thank you so much for the link. That is exactly what I needed in helping me identify the part numbers I need to order or replace. The drive shaft does still turn by hand with the bearing house removed and it still turns the propeller shaft. Everything seems to still be in good condition. The only problem I'm running into now is getting the drive shaft to come on out of the lower unit. I'm assuming I will have to get those Snap rings removed down at the end of the propeller shaft. I bought some Snap ring pliers but they aren't long enough to reach them. Looking at the exploded view from the link above, it looks like there is a nut at the very bottom of the drive shaft located in there somewhere, but I can't get to it. I have found new parts on ebay using the Part #s listed on marine engine. If I can just get those snap rings out, I think I can get the drive shaft out. Any suggestions. Thanks so much

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Hello Daviet,
The gearcase didn't appear to be low on oil but did appear to may have had some water because it was slightly milky looking. I'm having trouble getting the drive shaft out. I think everything might still be useable but I just can't get those snap rings out to get to the nut at the bottom of the shaft..I've tried several different pairs of snap ring pliers but as I put them in there, the pliers close together and can't get into the holes....Thanks so much for your help, I will post the results when I can finally get the drive shaft out. Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Take it into a dlr and have him remove the snap rings. You need some big ones to do the job. You might also check Harbor Freight for a pair.

 

[mstone1968]

Re: 1979 85HP JOHNSON V-4 Starter clicks, bendix tries to turn -flywheel does not ro

Finally got the drive shaft removed. Evidentally it got so hot that it has part of the lower unit housing was welded to it also and it had pitted part of the lower unit housing the drive shaft goes through. I think it will be cheaper to buy a used lower unit than to try to replace all the parts needed to fix this one. Thank ALL of you so much for your help on this project.