1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

theoldbaboon

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1978 Evinrude 85 Hp model number 85899c. Only under a load while on the water, not at idle, i am experiencing a hard jerk coming from the motor. I'm a auto mechanic so i can describe it as a hard miss. Singular miss until the next time it does it. Can't tell if it's a bad gear in the lower unit, or a slip in and out of gear real quick...really quick. ..or a hard miss like maybe water coming into a cylinder? The jerk happens pretty steady, every 26 sec.or pretty close to that. Feels like I'm hitting something underwater but I know I'm not. I did notice some water seeping very slowly from the head gasket on the starboard side. But I do know that the way the water wraps around the cylinders, the water may not be leaking inward into the cylinder. Could a dripping head gasket cause this hard miss???
 

boobie

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

It could be a dog and gear in the lower unit or an ignition miss. Put a timing light on it and check each cylinder when it does it and look for a black spot. If no ignition miss, maybe gear case.
 

jbjennings

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

Pretty classic symptom of a worn/chipped clutch dog. It will get worse and worse. I would take the lower unit apart now and hope that the forward gear ears aren't too far gone, but would expect to replace the forward gear and clutch dog.
JMO,
JBJ
 

emdsapmgr

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

You've gotten good advice. Check/verify that the engine shifts/engages into forward completely. If it's slightly out of adjustment, it can cause the clutch dog to slip a tooth periodically when under high loads.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

I disagree with the above - for now. That gear set spins really fast and every 26 seconds it is not likely the gears.

I would concentrate on the electrical and carbs. Now follow my train of thought....... IF toy have a failing or sticking float then the gas is just about run out of the float bowl ......the engine jerks and the float is resetting. For those of us that have V-4 motors the gas in the carbs will last about 30-60 seconds until they are drained (with no fuel line hooked up). I have seen it happen before.

I say examine the carbs (take them off, completely clean and re-assemble) because that is a zero cost repair and can be done in under 3 hours.

Next I would also check the spark while it is running with a timing ligt so you can see if you are loosing or dropping a spark which would point towards the power pack or timing base.
 

racerone

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

I would say it is a problem with the lower unit!-------Time to look at / fell the shift linkage on the motor when the " miss " occurs.
 

daselbee

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

+1 lower unit.
Every 26 seconds can be explained by that it just happens to be the time it takes the clutch dog to vibrate out of contact with the forward gear, and finally slip a cog.
I doubt the 26 seconds stuff tho....it is probably more random than exactly 26 secs. Twenty one time, thirty the next...etc.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)
(J. Reeves)

This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".

Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.

When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.

The lobes of the dog and gears are precisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are precisely machined with sharp angles!

Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those precisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.

Some boaters with manual shift engines have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those precisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.
 

theoldbaboon

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

+1 lower unit.
Every 26 seconds can be explained by that it just happens to be the time it takes the clutch dog to vibrate out of contact with the forward gear, and finally slip a cog.
I doubt the 26 seconds stuff tho....it is probably more random than exactly 26 secs. Twenty one time, thirty the next...etc.
why would and how does a clutch dog vibrate out of contact? You're right, it's not exactly 26 sec every time...but it's really close at full throttle. It did do it under light throttle as well, a little more random. The last run I made, it jerked a few times a couple seconds apart when I started to accelerate slowly, then got back to every 26 secs or so at full throttle.
 

theoldbaboon

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

It could be a dog and gear in the lower unit or an ignition miss. Put a timing light on it and check each cylinder when it does it and look for a black spot. If no ignition miss, maybe gear case.
I'm assuming a timing light on cylinder 1 at what rpm?
 

theoldbaboon

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)
(J. Reeves)

This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".

Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.

When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.

The lobes of the dog and gears are precisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are precisely machined with sharp angles!

Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those precisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.

Some boaters with manual shift engines have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those precisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.

Wow, thank you! Very detailed explanation...is there a diagram or video on how to disassemble the dog and clutch so I can check and or replace?
 

daselbee

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

You know how the mechanism works?

Upon shifting to forward, clutch dog makes full contact with front gear cogs. Assume there is a little wear, in that both the clutch dog and the front gear "dog" faces are not 90* anymore, but they are beveled slightly. They actually sort of round off. OK, full contact when first dropped in gear. The contact is maintained by spring pressure; a spring that is internal to the propshaft itself. Now, you accelerate, and vibrations occur, harmonics, etc. You are running now with huge "sideways" forces on the "dog cogs" keeping them in contact. But, over seconds...26 as you say, the clutch dog slowly moves away from the forward gear mesh...slowly riding away on that angled bevel that has worn in the dog cogs. The spring is not enough pressure to push it back to where it should be, against the sideways turning force, holding it further and further out away from the forward gear as it vibrates....and soon.....

Slip...jump...whatever you want to call it. The symptoms you describe are classic clutch dog / forward gear wear.

If you are not familiar with exactly how the dog and fwd/rev gears mesh to allow F-N-R shifting, then the above will not really make sense.
 
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jimmbo

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

Not all propshafts have the spring loaded clutch dogs or spring loaded Detents for the clutch dog
 

BigB9000

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

Is is possible the prop hub is slipping?
 

daselbee

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

Not all propshafts have the spring loaded clutch dogs or spring loaded Detents for the clutch dog

OK, so how does that change the validity of the answer? The presence of the spring is not critical to the description regarding the forward/clutch dog vibrating apart...
 

F_R

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

That periodic banging is the clutch dog. As Joe explained. We outboard mechanics hear that same classic story almost every day. For sure, the dog is worn out and most likely the forward gear also. The longer you let it bang, the more it wears and the more likely you will need a gear. There is no other cure, you have to take it apart and fix it.
 

jimmbo

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

OK, so how does that change the validity of the answer? The presence of the spring is not critical to the description regarding the forward/clutch dog vibrating apart...

Your description of operation "The contact is maintained by spring pressure; a spring that is internal to the propshaft itself".
 

theoldbaboon

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

If it's the dog, I'm assuming looking and feeling the shift linkage at the outboard will show movement when it occurs?
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

If it's the dog, I'm assuming looking and feeling the shift linkage at the outboard will show movement when it occurs?

Yep... just before that jerking tears your transom off. :)

Trust us my friend and don't question what we have experienced for 30 or 40 years. You have a clutch dog/forward gear problem which will require dismantling the lower unit. Best to have a Service Manual that is specificly for that individual engine... not a manual that covers a half dozen or so that will greatly confuse you.

You might try the following cable centering, but if that does you no good, resolve yourself to a lower unit repair job.

(Centering Shift Cable)
(J. Reeves)

When all is as it should be, the proper method to adjust the shift cable is to disconnect the cable from the engine. Move the shift linkage on the engine to find the center of the play in neutral, and when found, leave it centered.

Now, grab the end of the shift cable sleeve, push and pull it to find the center of the play there, and center that play.

Adjust the trunion on the threaded portion of the shift cable so that the centered play of the cable lines up with the centered play of the engine's shift linkage. Install and lock the shift cable with the retaining clamp in that position. That's it.
 

daselbee

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Re: 1978 evinrude has a hard "jerk" every 26 seconds

Your description of operation "The contact is maintained by spring pressure; a spring that is internal to the propshaft itself".

You are splitting hairs. OK, on propshafts with the spring, contact is aided by the spring. On propshafts without springs, the clutch dog can jump out quicker, due to the absence of the spring....

Better? The point is the clutch dog and forward gears vibrate apart under way. Not that some have springs and others don't.
 
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